你是否来自非欧盟国家，并想在瑞士工作？你有着怎样的求职经历？
瑞士严重依赖外国人才。但有证据表明，瑞士移民制度下，企业难以获得足以保持自身竞争力所需的技术工人工作许可。
虽然对来自欧盟和欧洲自由贸易区国家的雇员，瑞士没有施行配额制度，但对来自美国、印度和中国等所谓“第三国”的国民来说，情况则颇为不同。
你是否来自第三国，而且正在瑞士求职？你在瑞士移民系统中有着怎样的求职经历？
阅读文章 疫情暴露出瑞士在留住外国人才方面的短板
阅读文章 外国大学毕业生在瑞士找工作将不再难
你好。
有几家瑞士公司与我联系，希望我在制药行业担任工程职位。
由于我不是欧盟成员国，我所有的面试都以 "我们将无法为你获得工作许可，因为这非常复杂，瑞士在移民方面受到很大限制 "而告终。
我觉得这非常不幸。
Bonjour,
J'ai été contacté par plusieurs sociétés Suisse pour des postes d'ingénieur dans le secteur pharmaceutique.
N'étant pas membre de l'union Européenne, tous mes entretiens se sont conclus en "Nous ne pourrons pas vous obtenir un permis de travail car cela est très compliqué, la Suisse est très restreint niveau immigration".
Je trouve cela très dommage.
阅读关于外国公民在瑞士的经历的评论，对一个瑞士人来说是相当尴尬的。我曾在欧洲、亚洲、非洲和加勒比地区的15个国家生活和工作过，在任何地方都感到受到欢迎和尊重。读到外国人在瑞士没有感到同样的欢迎和尊重，实际上是相当痛苦的。我只能对他们说：对不起!
To read the comments of the experiences foreign nationals have in Switzerland is quite embarrassing for a Swiss. I have lived and worked in 15 countries in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Caribbean and have felt welcome and respected everywhere. To read that foreigners in Switzerland do not feel equally welcome and respected is actually quite painful. I can only say to them: sorry !
阅读这里的所有评论，我想到了以下内容。
- 对于外籍人士来说，英国和美国是伟大的国家。基于各种原因--语言、口音、年龄、性别等--的歧视在某种程度上可能在所有国家都存在；但你可以很容易地看到/读到许多移居到英国和美国的人的成功故事。
- 在美国，人们一般会根据你能取得的成果来判断你，而不是其他。像洛杉矶和纽约这样的城市对新的思想流派是最开放的。
- 在英国，大多数本地人会尊重非本地人。这并不意味着人们总是会同意所有的事情，但一般来说，当地人是很好的倾听者。尊重，鼓励非本地人把英国当作他们自己的国家；在那里他们必须做出贡献和支持。
在各种文化中生活过后，看着世界的变化，我想说的是，那句老话（类似于）----。
-- 不要问国家能为你做什么，而要问，你能为国家做什么。
应该改成--
-- 先问国家能为你做什么，然后如果你喜欢这个国家，就为这个国家做最好的事，并获得幸福。
事实是，人应该是第一位的。是人民造就了一个国家，也是人民毁了一个国家。一个国家是一个由人组成的行政集团。我知道有些人可能会觉得这种说法很奇怪（所有的民族主义、足球、祖国等），但事实是--一个国家要想在2021年及以后保持 "成功"，生活在这个国家的人--无论是否持有当地护照--必须感到他们的技能和努力工作受到重视。如果不是这样，他们会把他们的大脑带到其他地方。在21世纪，没有一个国家可以在没有 "聪明人 "的情况下存在。
各国必须争夺最好的人才，而不是相反；因为人的生命才是最重要的。
Reading all the comments here, the following comes to mind:
- For expats, UK and USA are great countries. Discrimination to some extent, based on all sorts of reasons - language, accent, age, gender, etc - exists probably in all countries; but you can easily see/read about the many success stories of people who have moved to UK and USA.
- In USA, people will generally judge you based on what results you can achieve, and nothing else. Cities like LA and New York are the most open to new schools of thought.
- In UK, most natives will treat non-natives with respect. It does not mean that people will always agree with everything, but generally, locals are good listeners. Respect, encourages non-natives to treat UK as their own country; where they must contribute and support.
Having lived among various cultures, and looking at how the world has changed, I would say that the old saying (something like) -
-- Ask not what the country can do for you, but ask, what YOU can do for the country
Should be changed to -
-- Ask what the country can do for YOU, first, and then if YOU like the country, do the best for that country and be happy.
Fact is, people should come first. It is the people who make or break a country. A country is an administrative grouping of people. I know some people may find that statement strange (with all the nationalism, football, motherland, etc) but truth is - for a country to be or remain "successful" in 2021 and beyond, people living in that country - with or without a local passport - must feel that they are valued for their skills and hard work. If not, they will take their brains elsewhere. And no country can exist without "brainy" people, not in 21st century.
Countries must compete for the best people, and NOT the other way around; because it is human life that is the most important.
非常明智的话语，感谢Mike!
Very wise words, thanks Mike!
我是欧盟和美国的双重公民，在这里生活了16年，有C类许可证，会说两种国家语言。 我和我的配偶一起来到这里，他被他的雇主调走了。 我有两个学位，在金融和法律领域有二十多年的经验。 我在当地找到了工作，尽管这比我以前所做的工作要差一些。但我发现这里的工作场所充满敌意、有毒，而且高度政治化。我反复经历了暴徒和欺凌的情况，并被迫离开了几个职位。很明显，当地人非常没有安全感，消极攻击，无法忍受在工作中被外国人超越的情况。 歧视现象猖獗--年龄、性别和仇外心理--而且由于劳动法薄弱甚至不存在，管理薄弱，人力资源部门形同虚设，任何追索都是不可能的。令人难以置信的是，有些人为了破坏、损害和暗杀另一个诚实、努力工作的雇员，不惜一切代价。
I am a dual EU-US citizen living here 16 years, have a C permit and speak two of the national languages. I came here with my spouse who was transferred by his employer. I have two degrees and over two decades of experience in finance and law. I found work locally, even though it was a step down from what I'd done previously. But I found workplaces here to be hostile, toxic and highly political. I experienced repeated instances of mobbing and bullying and was forced to leave several roles. It's evident that the locals are very insecure, passive-aggressive, and can't stand being outperformed by foreigners at work. There is rampant discrimination -- age, sex and xenophobia -- and given the weak to non-existent labor laws, weak management and useless HR departments, any recourse is impossible. It is mind-boggling the lengths some will go to to sabotage, undermine and character assassinate another simply for being an honest, hard-working employee.
我是瑞士人，但我所有的朋友都是外籍人士。 他们的经历与评论者描述的问题完全吻合，并对当地政府的滥用行为有很大的意见。
我很庆幸我也有一本法国护照，因为我们正准备搬到那里。我们20年前买的房子现在的价值几乎大了5倍，所以用这些钱我们几乎可以在法国退休。我们的孩子还小，但能说流利的法语。
I'm Swiss, but all my friends are expats. Their experiences match perfectly the issues described by the people who commented and have big problems with the local government abuses.
I'm thankful I also have a French passport as we are preparing to move there. The home we bought 20 years ago now has a value almost 5 times bigger so with that money we can almost retire in France. Our children are small but speak fluent French.
我在瑞士生活多年。受过教育......遵守法律......纳税，讲当地语言。非欧盟国家的外籍人士，与家人生活在一起。
在L许可证上挣扎了多年，尽管应得的是B许可证。当合同到期或被终止时，你没有资格继续在瑞士生活。
也不能享受你多年来支付的失业保险。
也不能从外国人办公室获得任何支持。
我看到那些受教育程度不高的人通过逃税、吸毒......不工作和违反法律，使瑞士的制度成为一个笑话。
也许你们更应该得到那些吸毒者......你们国家，至少是在外国人办公室工作的人，有一种倾向，就是让受过高等教育的外国人感到困难。这是可以理解的，当教育在一个家庭中不是优先事项，父母也不鼓励它。
因此，拥有高学历的人，意味着当地受教育程度较低的孩子有更强的竞争力。
I lived years in Switzerland. educated...law abiding... tax paying, local language speaking... Non -eu expat living with a family.
Struggled for years on an L permit even though deserved a B permit. and when the contract expires or is terminated.. you are not eligible to live any further in switzerland.
Nor have access to your unemployment insurance you paid for years.
Nor get any support from the foreigners office.
And I see less educated and qualified people making a joke of the Swiss system by evading taxes, doing drugs.. not working and breaking laws.
Maybe you guys deserve the drug addicts more... Your country and atleast the people working in the foreigners office have a tendency to make it difficult for highly educated foreigners. Now it is understandable, when education is not a priority in a family nor parents encourage it.
So having highly educated people, means the local less educated children have a stronger competition.
我是法国人，但我也有一本加拿大护照。我得到了一个L许可证，因为当我第一次来到苏黎世的时候，gemeinde决定使用加拿大的护照。现在在日内瓦，他们说他们将使用法国护照，但我必须从头开始使用L许可证。这种歧视是荒谬的。难怪他们找不到女外科医生来瑞士。我将在两个月后离开。
I'm french but I also have a Canadian passport. I was given an L permit because the gemeinde decided to use the canadian passport when I first came to Zurich. Now in Geneva they say they will use the French passport, but I have to re-start from scratch with an L permit. This discrimination is absurd. No wonder they cannot find women surgeons to come to Switzerland. I'm leaving in 2 months.
我希望作者意识到，瑞士的非欧洲人数量之少是不言而喻的。
.
这有点像：战争的危险性比相信的要小。我问过很多经历过战争的人，他们中没有人被枪杀。)
I hope the Author realizes that the low number of non-Europeans in Switzerland speaks for itself.
.
It is a bit like: war is less dangerous than believed. I asked many people who been through the war and nobody of them was shot dead. ;)
我是芬兰人，我的经历非常糟糕，从所有L许可证的滥用到开设银行账户的限制，与当地人相比，从税收中扣除任何东西或荒谬的租金终止日期。只是无休止的虐待。
我并没有要求来这里。我是被我的雇主要求来的，因为他们找不到愿意搬到瑞士的高层管理人员。而且，你可以从瑞士公司得到的所有疯狂的损失中看到，因为他们没有雇用有经验的专业人员，他们背后有顶级的成就记录。14个月已经受够了这种虐待。到七月底，我将离开并返回德国。
而且，不，我不是从第三世界国家来的。我是一名顶级的投资银行管理人员，拥有两个MBA学位和三本护照（芬兰、丹麦和德国）。
我只是很高兴我没有把我的妻子和孩子带来。这是我一生中最聪明的选择。
I'm finnish and my experience has been awful from the abuse with all the L permits to the limitations on opening bank accounts, deducting anything from taxes compared to the locals or the absurd rent termination dates. Just endless abuse.
I did not ask to come here. I was asked by my employer as they could not find top executives willing to move to Switzerland. And, you can see it in all the crazy losses Swiss companies get because they are not hiring experienced professionals with a top record of accomplishment behind them. 14 months was enough of taking this abuse. By the end of July I am leaving and heading back to Germany.
And, no, I did not come from a third world country. I'm a top qualified investment banking executive with 2 MBAs and 3 passports (finnish, danish and german).
I'm just glad I did not bring my wife and kids along. That was the smartest choice of my life.
作为一个拥有研究生学历和超过10年媒体经验的欧盟公民是很难的，瑞士和残酷的事实是他们不是坏人只是一个建立在中和和价值的国家，所以他们首先重视自己的人民。他们对外国人不是很开放。特别是如果你看起来与众不同
As an EU Citizen with a postgraduate qualification and over 10 years of Media experience is hard, Switzerland and the brutal truth is they aren't bad people is just a country build on neutralization and value so they value first their own people. They are not too open about foreigners. Especially if you look different
我是非欧盟国家的，我有16年以上的IT工作经验，在领先的银行工作。我在瑞士银行作为承包商工作了近11年，在瑞士工作了5年。我的B许可证是针对公司和工作的，这意味着我不能改变我的合同工作或公司，雇主对所有的补偿决定有完全的自主权。
我的妻子也有类似的经历，在瑞士银行从事长期工作。她有B类居留证。我知道，6年后，瑞士当局不会延长我们的许可证，所以我们需要离开瑞士。我的儿子在当地的德国学校上学，所以我们没有任何选择，只能去德国，他们欢迎我们。
I am Non EU, i got 16+ years of IT experience working with leading Banks. I am working as a contractor for swiss bank for almost 11 years and 5 years in Switzerland. My B permit is company and job specific it means i cant change my contracting job or company and employer have full autonomy on all compensation decision.
my wife also got similar experience and working on permanent role with Swiss bank. She has dependent B permit. I got to know that after 6 years Swiss authority does not extend our permit so we need to leave Swiss. my son attend local German school so we don't have any option to stay back but to go to Germany where they are welcoming us.
我在某种程度上同意。如果你看起来与众不同，瑞士会很艰难
I agree some extent. Switzerland can be tough if you look different
我与这里的大多数评论有类似的经历。我出生在印度尼西亚，父母是德国人和中国人。我选择只拿印尼护照。
由于我父亲在瑞士从事化学研究工作，我决定也来这里。我所工作的制药公司在瑞士也有办事处，我要求调职。我的工作是国际专利法，所以他们帮我拿到了L许可证，然后是B许可证，但它们只对我来到这里的公司有效。
在瑞士呆了9年后，我决定对我来说，不可能获得正常的工作许可或护照。我在德国看望我的祖父母时遇到了我的丈夫，我们将搬家。我有一个2岁的女儿在这里出生，双胞胎也即将出生。瑞士不是一个适合他们成长的地方，这里的外国人面临着各种困难。
我很感谢这个国家，因为我在过去的9年里学到了很多东西，由于瑞士法郎的通货膨胀，我买的公寓现在可以以几乎3倍的价格出售，这将是非常好的。我可以用这笔钱在印度尼西亚建造一个全新的300平方米的房子，基本上可以退休并照顾我的孩子。我将继续兼职工作，因为我不想与我的工作失去联系，但实际上我将有足够的钱，不需要这样做。
我很幸运。我在这里认识的大多数女性朋友都是和她们的丈夫一起来的，即使不断申请了8-10年，也找不到工作。对于一个外国人来说，这是一个非常令人沮丧的国家。
我为瑞士感到难过。如果不是对我们所有人的待遇如此之差，它本可以获得如此多的高素质人才作为其公民。相反，它正面临着一场人口灾难，每天都在收集越来越多的低素质的公民。我只是不明白这背后的战略计划。
I had a similar experience with most of the comments here. I was born in Indonesia out of German and Chinese parents. I chose to only take the Indonesian passport.
Since my dad was working in Switzerland as a chemist researcher I decided to come here as well. The pharma company I was working for also had offices in Switzerland and I asked for a transfer. I work in international patent law, so they helped me get the L permit and then a B permit, but they are only valid for the company I came here with.
After 9 years in Switzerland I decided that for me it is impossible to get a normal work permit or a passport. I met my husband in Germany when I was visiting my grandparents and we will move. I have a 2 year old daughter born here and twins on the way. Switzerland will not be a good place for them to grow up with all the difficulties foreigners deal with here.
I'm thankful for the country as I learned a lot in the last 9 years and the apartment I bought can now be sold for almost 3x the price due to swiss franc inflation, which will be great. I can use the money to build a brand new 300m2 home in Indonesia and basically retire and take care of my children. I will keep working part time as I do not want to lose connection with my job, but in reality I will have enough money not to need to do it.
I was lucky. Most of the women friends I made here came with their husbands and could not find jobs even after 8-10 years of constantly applying. It is a very frustrating country for a foreigner.
I'm sad for Switzerland. It would have obtained so many highly qualified people as its citizens if it did not treat all of us so badly. Instead it is facing a demographic disaster and every day it collects more and more citizens with low qualifications. I just don't get the strategic plan behind this.
谢谢你的贡献!从一个在瑞士生活了这么久并面临这些困难的人那里听到这个消息很有意思。祝你的未来一切顺利!
Thank you for your contribution! It's interesting to hear from someone who has lived in Switzerland for so long as well and faced these difficulties. All the best for your future!
虽然我没有和瑞士的移民系统打过交道，但我确实获得了一家优秀公司的坚定邀请，这意味着我在我的领域是合格的。还有一次，我申请另一家著名公司的职位，我被告知，虽然我的资格很好，但他们不能考虑我。不言而喻，由于我不是欧盟国家的人，更不是瑞士人，我找到工作的机会几乎是不存在的。
While I haven't dealt with the Swiss immigration system, I have indeed obtained one firm offer from an excellent company, which means I am qualified in my field. One other time I applied to a position in another reputable company, I was told that while my qualifications were excellent, they couldn't consider me. It went sort of without saying that since I wasn't a EU national, let alone Swiss, my chances landing a job were almost non-existent.
我出生在那些欧洲以外的国家之一，叫做塞尔维亚。
作为一名牙医，我不得不跳过许多障碍，在瑞士获得一个医疗办公室，我不得不重新学习，以便我的学位被接受。
在瑞士呆了14年后，由于我从为他人工作转为拥有自己的橱柜时有几个月的工资中断，所以我仍然持B类许可证，我决定我基本上没有机会获得瑞士护照。我从来没有使用过社会保险系统，而且在14年里，除了在已经签订的合同中间有8个月的时间，我一直都是全职工作，从事高素质的工作。然而，我的待遇比在快餐店做清洁工的难民要差得多。我可以说流利的德语、英语和法语，但我永远不会得到诚实的待遇，不会被承认为瑞士人。
因此，到今年年底，我将把我的牙科诊所连同6名医生和我们的家人一起搬到德国。我已经和德国当局谈过了，他们对像我们这样的高素质医务人员非常渴望，也非常高兴，甚至会将获得德国护照的5年期限缩短3年。他们希望我们有家的感觉并留在那里，尤其是我们所有人都会带着2-3个孩子来，这些孩子在德国都是绰绰有余的。
看到这种行为，我真的很难过。我想在这里度过我的余生，但这种歧视程度实在是太荒谬了。
I was born in one of those out of Europe countries, called Serbia.
As a dentist I had to jump through a lot of hoops to get a medical office in Switzerland and I had to re-study so my degree would be accepted.
After 14 years in Switzerland and still on a B permit because I had a few months break in pay when moving from working for others to having my own cabinet, I decided that there is basically no chance for me to ever receive the Swiss passport. I've never used the social security system and other than 8 months of time in-between already signed contracts in 14 years I've always worked full time in a highly qualified job. Still, I am treated a lot worst than a refugee working as a cleaner at a fast food shop. I speak fluently German, English and French, yet I'll never received an honest treatment to ever be recognized as Swiss.
So, by the end of the year I will be moving my dentistry cabinet along with its 6 doctors and our families to Germany. I already talked with the German authorities and they are desperate and really happy to have highly qualified medical staff like us and will even cut 3 years off the 5 years period to get the German passport. They want us to feel at home and stay there, especially since all of us will come with 2-3 kids each, all more than needed in Germany.
I'm really sad to see this kind of behavior. I wanted to spend the rest of my life here, but the level of discrimination is just absurd.
非常感谢你分享你的故事，我很遗憾听到你在瑞士遇到的挑战。听到德国的入籍程序如何调整以吸引像你这样的技术人才，这很有意思。
Thank you so for sharing your story and I'm sorry to hear about the challenges in Switzerland. It is interesting hear how Germany's naturalisation process is adapting to attract skilled professionals like yourself.
德国很高兴得到高素质的人，他们年轻的孩子，以及一般来说他们带来的大量金钱，因为大多数顶级专业人士都有储蓄，并会购买自己的房子。这对德国经济来说都是好事。
瑞士更愿意失去人、储蓄、技能、知识和年轻人口。
Germany is happy to get highly qualified people, their young kids and generally the good amount of money they come along with as most top professionals have savings and will buy their own homes. All good for the German economy.
Switzerland prefers to lose people, savings, skills, know-how and young population.
我在2010年左右来到CH时，在非洲和前苏联的几个国家有大约20年的建筑和石油行业经验。
两年后，在没有工作的情况下，我去了哈萨克斯坦工作。现在，我在我的祖国管理一家小公司，我们做得很好。
我没有在中国找到工作的原因，所以我一次又一次地听到，是我的相关经验不足。我是如何在生活中跌跌撞撞的呢？
瑞士人的素质是肯定的，但更多的灵活性和更少的自负会看到你的国家变得更加强大。
I had about 20 years' experience in construction and the oil industry in several counties in Africa and the former Soviet Union when I arrived in CH around 2010.
Two years later, and without a job, I left to work in Kazakhstan. Now, I am managing a small company in my home country, and we are doing well.
The reason I did not pull a job in CH, so I heard time and time again, was that I had insufficient relevant experience. How is it that I have stumbled through life?
Swiss quality is for sure, but more flexibility and less self-importance will see your country become even stronger.
听到有这么多工作经验的人的观点很有意思，因为大多数的故事都是来自刚毕业的学生。谢谢你的分享。
It's interesting to hear the perspective of someone with so much work experience as most of the stories have come from recent graduates. Thanks for sharing.
我的经历过去和现在都相当可怕。几年过去了，我完全失去了找工作的希望，所以一旦我的瑞士丈夫想出我们如何在两个大陆上生活的办法，我就马上回家。
我是一个持有C类签证的澳大利亚人，与瑞士人结婚......已经在这里生活了6年。起初，在抵达中国后，我满脑子都是希望能重新创造我在我的国家留下的一切。
我一生都在为航空公司工作，所以我多次尝试在其他领域（如银行、制药等）寻找工作，但由于没有这些领域的经验而失败。
我也看了瑞士航空公司，我每年至少有4次被打电话和邀请参加面试。我的第一次甚至第二次面试都没有让我更进一步。当我向人力资源部门询问被拒绝的原因时，典型的回答是 "我们决定用一个德国人代替"。不是瑞士人，而是德国人。我甚至申请了空姐，但收到了一封电子邮件，我被告知 "只有瑞士或欧盟护照持有者才能被接受参加面试"。因此，我的申请被撤回了。即使是我的C证也没有用！我以为我是瑞士的永久居民。我以为我是瑞士的永久居民，但我错了。我的C证在这里毫无意义...
另外，我还想补充一个故事，我女儿（与我第一任丈夫所生，又称非瑞士人）找工作的努力。她和我一起来到了瑞士。由于她的年龄，18岁以上，她没有可能获得任何家庭团聚签证。她决定和我们一起留在这里，并在UNI学习，获得硕士学位。毕业后，她在Adeco集团找到了一份实习工作。从学生签证转为工作签证是无法想象的......不可能的任务，但我们成功地安排了。
在瑞士以6个月的工作签证许可从事实习工作是一种自杀行为。我只有在晚上8点或9点以后才能见到我的女儿。她每天都要留下来，而且从来没有因为她所做的那些额外工作而得到报酬。很明显，瑞士的雇主知道像我们这样的人愿意为花生米工作，会做一切事情。否则，你就会被赶出这个国家!对吧！？
我女儿承受着巨大的压力，她在一个月内变得瘦得像根棍子。结束实习后，她决定回澳大利亚的家。她受够了那种签证的屈辱和虐待性的工作环境。再继续下去也只是浪费精力和努力。对于任何没有签证的澳大利亚人来说，找到一份工作是不可能的。在没有任何工作机会的情况下获得签证也是不可能的。在这种情况下，你该怎么办？怎么做？就是离开。反正瑞士人不会接受你。你永远不会觉得自己是这个社会的一部分。
My experience was and is rather dreadful. Years passed, I totally lost my hope in finding a job, so I am going back home as soon as my Swiss husband figures out how we can lead our lives living on separate continents.
I am an Australian with a C permit, married to Swiss... have been living here for 6 years already. At first, after arrival to CH, I was full of beans and hopes in recreating all I left behind in my country.
I worked all my life for the airline, so my numerous trials to find a job in another area (like banking, pharmaceutical, etc) failed due to no experience in these fields.
I looked at Swiss Airline as well and I had been called and invited to interviews at least 4 times a year. None of my first or even second interviews took me any further. When I asked HR for a reason for rejection, the typical answer was "We decided to take a German instead". Not Swiss, but German. I even applied as a flight attendant, but received an email where I was told that "only Swiss or EU passport holders can be accepted for the interview". So that my application had been withdrawn. Even my C permit did not help! I thought I am a permanent resident in Switzerland, but o boy I was wrong. My C permit means nothing here...
Also, I would like to add another story, my daughter's (from my first husband, aka not Swiss) job search endeavor. She came along with me to Switzerland. Because of her age, 18+ years old, she had no possibility of any family reunion visa. She decided to stay with us here and study at UNI obtaining her Master's degree. After her graduation, she found an intern job in Adeco group. Getting a transfer from a student visa to a working visa was beyond imagination... mission impossible, but we managed to organise it.
Working as an intern on a 6 month-long working visa permit in Switzerland is suicidal. I saw my daughter only after 8 pm or 9 pm. She had to stay back every day and never was paid for that extra work she was doing. Obviously, Swiss employers know that people like us will work for peanuts and will do everything. Otherwise, you are out of the country! Right?!
My daughter was under huge stress, she became skinny like a stick in one month. After finishing her internship, she decided to go back home to Australia. She had enough of that humiliation with visas and an abusive work environment. Continuing any further is just a waste of energy and effort. Finding a job for any Australian without a visa is impossible. Getting a visa without any job offer is also impossible. What do you do in this case? How? Just leave. Swiss people will never accept you anyway. You will never feel like a part of this society.
真的很遗憾听到你所经历的一切。真的很惊讶听到C类许可证没有帮助。我相信你的观点，即没有签证很难找到工作，但没有工作也很难获得签证，这一点引起了很多人的共鸣。
Really sorry to hear what you've gone through. Really surprised to hear about that the C permit didn't help. I'm sure your point that it's difficult to get a job without a visa but also a visa without a job resonates with a lot of people.
我们在哪里划定欧洲以外的含义？瑞士对各种欧盟国家有完全不同的标准，如欧盟5国、欧盟2国，对从瑞典到阿尔巴尼亚或塞尔维亚的每个非欧盟国家都有不同的标准。或多或少，除了最初的欧盟国家之外，其他人都是某种类型的欧洲以外的人。这是一种荒谬的歧视，首先是因为它完全没有效率，其次是因为它根本就是错误的。
Where do we draw the line on what outside of Europe means? Switzerland has completely different standards for the various EU countries like EU-5, EU-2, different standards for each of the non-EU countries from Sweden to Albania or Serbia. More or less, other than the original EU countries everyone else is some category of outside Europe person. This is an absurd discrimination first of all because it is completely inefficient and second of all because it is simply wrong.
这是一个非常好的观点。我知道某些国籍的人有单独的配额，但没有意识到不同国家的标准范围。谢谢你提出这个问题。
This is a really good point. I was aware of separate quotas for certain nationalities but didn't realize the range of standards for different countries. Thanks for raising this.
我做了几次面试，在2007年底被录取了。然后花了近半年的时间才拿到B证。
由于我居住在沃州，这个过程相对顺利，但极其缓慢。
总而言之，如果你不喜欢与人打交道，瑞士是世界上最好的地方。但我的情况不是这样的:-)
在美国，你每天都会在电梯里和完全陌生的人小谈两次。在瑞士，当你的瑞士朋友邀请你吃饭的时候，你每年会有两次小的谈话。
I did a couple of interviews and was accepted to a job in late 2007. Then it took almost half a year to get a permit B.
Since I am residing in Vaud, the process was relatively smooth, but extremely slow.
All in all, if you do not like interacting with people, CH is the best place in the world. Not my case though :-)
In USA, you get a small talk twice a day in an elevator with complete strangers. In Switzerland, you get a small talk twice a year, when your Swiss friends invite you for dinner
等等！我是 "瑞士人"，因为我拿到了护照，但我出生在远离瑞士的一个所谓的 "第三世界国家"。我来到瑞士学习，我比任何原始的Eidgenosse人都更有教养，我是 "Fachkraft"，而 "真正的瑞士人 "仍然歧视我，仿佛我是一种肮脏的血统或某种奇怪的东西。让我告诉你，瑞士人是我所见过的最具有种族主义色彩的人。说了这么多，我真的不知道我还在这里做什么，为什么我还在为这个国家缴税。我迫不及待地想离开这里，到其他没有那么多种族主义者的地方纳税。
Wait! I am “Swiss” because I got the passport but I was born away from Switzerland in a so called “third world country”. I came to study in Switzerland, I am more educated than any Original Eidgenosse, I am “Fachkraft”, and the “real Swiss” still discriminate me big time, as if I was a sort of dirty blood person or something weird. Let me tell you that the Swiss are the most racist people I have ever experiences. Having said that I really do not know what I am still doing here and why I am still contributing with my taxes to this country. I cannot wait to leave and pay taxes somewhere else less racist.
我不会称瑞士人为种族主义者。在我看来，他们只是讨厌所有不是瑞士人的人。有时我甚至认为他们甚至互相憎恨......悄悄地憎恨对方。他们喜欢雇用非瑞士人，并且为同样的工作付给他们更少的钱。我住在德国边境附近，我观察到Grenze Polizei如何抓捕在德国购物的人。你可以看到在离边境10公里的地方就有汽车被拦下并被搜查。警察躲在灌木丛中。疯了!今年夏天，我肯定会拍一部电影，并把它放在我的Facebook上。瑞士人对瑞士人的做法太疯狂了。我一生中从未见过这样的事情，相信我，我也有过这样的经历。仇恨达到了最高水平。
I would not call Swiss racists. It seems to me like they just hate everyone who is not Swiss. Sometimes I even think that they even hate each other... quietly hate each other. They love to hire non-Swiss and pay them much less money for the same job. I live near the German border and I observe how Grenze Polizei catches people who have done shopping in Germany. You can see cars stopped and searched even 10km from the border! Police sit hiding in bushes! Crazy! This summer I definitely will make a movie and put it on my Facebook. That is insane how Swiss do it to Swiss. I have never seen anything like that in my life and trust me, I had my share. Hatred to its highest level.
报价是没有用的，我试图在这里开一家公司，因为作为在这里学习的非欧盟国家，我很难找到工作，所以我决定创建一个公司，经过近一年的文件工作和简单地等待任何答复，我被拒绝了，因为他们说是因为报价（不是开玩笑，他们说他们喜欢我的项目，但他们不能，在两个月内，当一年结束时，我的城市仍然有60个报价名额没有填补，但去法院可以授予你一年的许可，但明年他们会说我不够融合，因为我去法院反对瑞士。
Quotes does not work, i tried to open a company here with because as non eu who studied here i struggled to find a job so i decided to creat one, after nearly a year of paper work and simply waiting for any answer i was rejected as they said because of quote (not kidding they said they like my project but they can't, and in 2 months when year ended there were still 60 quote places in my city not filled, but going to court can grant you permit for 1 year but next year they will just say that i am not integrated enough because i went to court against Switzerland.
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