What could Switzerland and the United States learn from each other today?
The US and Switzerland once influenced each other as sister republics.
In view of the impact of social media on public debate and growing polarisation, all democratic countries must ask themselves what ideas they can use to win the trust of their citizens.
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Sister republics: what the US and Switzerland have in common
The US and Switzerland are different when it comes to polarisation. However, approaches can often be found through comparison. So what could the two democracies learn from each other?
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Five events that shaped contemporary Swiss-American relations
Good morning, I read the comments of Swiss politicians and I did not find deep analyses of the American political situation, some even misleading, one cannot reduce the position of Trump's staff to the few things read in the analyses of your article and disseminated by the interested media owned by those who oppose them.
To think of Switzerland approaching an undemocratic cage like the EU is a delusion. The EU is an organisation in the hands of a commission not elected by anyone completely controlled by the financial usurers.
But do you know what Eurogendfor is?
I'll tell you, it is the reproduction of a completely, utterly, surreptitiously Nazi form of sociality.
The level of Italian politicians is non-existent and corrupt, but even in Switzerland I don't see anyone capable of an all-round analysis.
Buongiorno, ho letto i commenti dei politici svizzeri e non ho trovato analisi profonde sulla situazione politica americana, alcune addirittura fuorvianti, non si può ridurre la posizione dello staff di Trump alle poche cose lette nelle analisi del vostro articolo e diffuse dai media interessati di proprietà di chi li avversa.
Pensare di avvicinarsi da parte della Svizzera a una gabbia antidemocratica come la EU lo trovo un delirio. La EU è una organizzazione in mano a una commissione non eletta da nessuno completamente controllata dagli usurai finanziari.
Ma avete presente cosa sia Eurogendfor?
Ve lo dico io, è la riproduzione di una forma di socialità completamente, assolutamente, surrettiziamente, nazista.
Il livello dei politici italiani è inesistente e corrotto, ma anche in Svizzera non vedo soggetti capaci di analisi a 360°.
I live in Japan, so I want to talk about the Japanese political background as well.
At the moment, the political situation in major industrialised countries, including Japan, is deteriorating rapidly. This was a problem even before the Corona pandemic, but it became more serious with Corona.
What has come to light in Corona is the lack of preparedness of countries for emergencies and the true 'face' that governments show when chaos breaks out, as well as our insecurities, desires and violent nature. It was clear that when people are in shortages of any kind, there is a surge in killing people and taking something from them.
Especially in the US and other countries - at least not in Japan, where we have guns. When chaos breaks out, you know exactly what happens on the streets.
So why is there no gun control? Pressure groups are probably the biggest direct cause. Profit-driven organisations have stood in the way of people doing what they need to do, as much as they need to do it, to prevent further harm and to improve society. It is the same in Japan.
It is said that the current decline in the Japanese economy is a failure caused by politics. Yes, it is, and it is because of pressure groups. Even the birth of a very good politician, Shinzo Abe, he was hampered by pressure groups, or other organisations, to reverse policies that were supposed to help people. You all know Abenomics. No matter how good a politician is, he couldn't beat an organisation made up of a bunch of people who could be described as scum.
I don't know much about the situation in the US, but the same thing is happening, has happened or will happen. I don't know about European countries.
States that have developed through free competition, especially larger ones, are more adversely affected by pressure groups. (The Soviet Union, for example, is an earlier problem.)
Switzerland is probably relatively light on this issue.
No matter how similar the political systems of Switzerland and the US are, and no matter how much they are said to be sister republics, if the economies are different in size, the problems would be quite different.
(I don't know what criteria are used to describe sister republics, so please point out if I'm wrong.)
At any rate, one of the things that needs to be done in the future is to control third-party entry into politics in Switzerland, and to dismantle excessive pressure groups in the USA and Japan.
Thanks for reading to the end.
私は日本に住んでいるから、日本の政治背景も交えて話したい。
今現在、日本も含め主要先進国の政治状態が急激に悪化している。コロナパンデミック以前からの問題であるが、コロナでより深刻となった。
コロナで明るみとなったことは、各国の非常事態への用意不足と混乱が起こった時に政府が見せる本来の、「顔」、そして私たちの不安、欲望、暴力性だ。人々が何かしらの不足に陥った時、人を殺して何かを奪うということが急増することがよくわかった。
特にアメリカなどでは、ー少なくとも日本にはないね、銃がある。混乱が生じた時、何が街角で起こるかよく分かっただろう。
ではなぜ銃規制がされないか。それは圧力団体が最も大きな直接的な原因であろう。更なる被害を出さないために、そして社会をより良くするために、人々が必要なことを必要な分だけするのを、利益を重んじる組織は邪魔となってきた。日本でも同じだよ。
今の日本経済の落ち込みは政治による失敗であると言われる。ああ、その通りで、そしてそれは圧力団体のせいだ。アベシンゾウというとても優秀な政治家が誕生してさえ、彼は圧力団体、またはその他の組織により阻害され、本来は人々を救う政策を逆効果にされた。みんな知っているだろうアベノミクスさ。いくら優秀な政治家でも、クズとも言える人々が群がってできる組織には勝てなかった。
アメリカの状況については良くは分からないが、同じことが起こっている、起こった、またはこれから起こるだろう。ヨーロッパ諸国はどうかな。
自由競争で発展した国家、特に規模の大きい国家ではより圧力団体の弊害が大きくなる。(ソビエトなどはもっと以前の問題であるが)
スイスは比較的その問題が軽いのではないだろうか。
いくらスイスとアメリカの政治制度が似ていて、姉妹共和国であると言われても経済規模が違えばかなりの問題が違ってくるんじゃないかな。
(私は姉妹共和国がどのような基準で言われているのか分からないから、間違っていたら指摘してください。)
とりあえず、スイスでは政治への第三者的参入のコントロール、アメリカ、日本は過度な圧力団体の解体が今後すべきことの1つだ。
最後まで読んでくれてありがとう。
The USA could learn from Switzerland to send a qualified Ambassador with diplomatic experience to the other country, rather than just give an Ambassador's post as a reward for a handsome Campaign contribution.
Both Europe and the United States need to learn to reinforce the freedoms that democratic and or republican forms of government bring. The US has been on a slide to an overreaching and controlling central government for a long time. This has brought loss of freedom, respect for the individual, a rise of violence, a degraded quality of life in every way. A return to the rule of law is badly needed in both the US and European countries as well as a return to respect for our cultures.
Europe must realise immediately that democratic forces must be strengthened in a world that has become uncertain. We must no longer allow "games" in the sense that we try out how far right-wing extremist opinions and statements can be tolerated. The big power blocs are ready to crush the fickle states. The example of Ukraine shows us what could be in store for us. Let's stand up for justice, freedom and democracy!
Europa muss sofort realisieren, dass in der unsicher gewordenen Welt die demokratischen Kräfte gestärkt werden müssen. Wir dürfen keine "Spielchen" mehr zulassen in dem Sinne, dass wir ausprobieren wie weit rechtextremistische Meinungen und Aussagen geduldet werden können. Die grossen Machtblöcke sind bereit die wankelmütigen Staaten zu zerreiben. Am Beispiel Ukraine sehen wir, was uns blühen könnte. Stehen wir ein für Recht, Freiheit und Demokratie!
Thank you for your contribution. Where do you see Switzerland's specific role?
Vielen Dank für Ihren Beitrag. Wo sehen Sie da die spezifische Rolle der Schweiz?
The US might want to 'learn' to be less violent! The 'will of the people'...which is what the word 'democracy' stands for has come to mean 'the will of the rich'. Democracy it ain't no more. Having lived in the US and now living in Switzerland, I really can't see how 'sister republics' apply in today's world.
"Will of the rich" is wrong and reductive! Trump was elected precisely by the lower classes, those that our radical intelligentsia extols, but not at all when they vote right! Our left must learn that today the world has changed like never before (!) also thanks to social and information technology in general, and that the old political patterns no longer apply. Last but not least: the traditional beacons of the left (USSR, China) are now completely extinguished: today both Russia and China prosper precisely because they adhere to the globalised capitalist system! And their social inequalities today are even worse than in the West. Those who continue to reason with the old political schemes risk becoming blind and deaf.
"Volontà dei ricchi" è sbagliato e riduttivo! Trump è stato eletto proprio dai ceti più bassi, quelli che la nostra intellighenzia radical elvetica esalta, ma non assolutamente quando vota a destra! La nostra sinistra deve imparare che oggi il mondo è cambiato come non mai prima (!) anche grazie ai social e all'informatica in genere, e che i vecchi schemi politici non valgono più da parecchio tempo. Non da ultimo: i tradizionali fari della sinistra (URSS, Cina) si sono ormai spenti del tutto: oggi sia Russia che Cina, prosperano proprio perché aderiscono al sistema capitalista globalizzato! E le loro diseguaglianze sociali oggi sono anche peggiori che ad Ovest. Chi continua a ragionare con i vecchi schemi politici, rischia di diventare cieco e sordo.
Thank you for your contribution - the sister republics have in fact only rarely become a topic of daily politics. Most recently, for example, during Ignazio Cassis' visit to New York: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/democracy/democracy-delivers-what-can-switzerland-bring-to-the-us-initiative/87660848
It remains to be seen how this will develop. But the really impressive thing about the "sister republics" is how differently two countries can develop when they have similar ideas and similar structures.
Vielen Dank für Ihren Beitrag - tatsächlich sind die Schwesterrepubliken nur selten Thema in der Tagespolitik geworden. Zuletzt etwa beim Besuch von Ignazio Cassis in New York: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/democracy/democracy-delivers-what-can-switzerland-bring-to-the-us-initiative/87660848
Wie sich das nun entwickeln wird, muss man schauen. Aber das eigentlich beeindruckende an den "Schwesterrepubliken" ist ja, wie verschieden sich zwei Länder entwickeln können, an deren Ursprung ähnliche Ideen und ähnliche Strukturen stehen.
Nothing
Switzerland and the USA do not face the same problems, nor do they have the same aspirations or the same mentality.
The USA wants to rule the world, while Switzerland simply wants to contribute to its well-being.
The USA claims to be democratic, but it is blind. Its presidential election system does not respect the opinions of its citizens. Mrs Clinton had the majority of voters, but not these strange grand electors.
The USA has a presidential system, Switzerland a parliamentary one, and we could go on for pages and pages.
In short, NOTHING
Rien
La Suisse et les USA ne sont pas confrontés par les mêmes problèmes, ils n'ont ni les mêmes aspirations, ni la même mentalité.
Les USA veulent diriger le monde, la Suisse simplement participer à son bien-être.
Les USA se veulent démocratiques, ils sont aveugles. Leur système d'élection présidentielle ne respecte pas les avis des citoyens. Mme Clinton avait la majorité des électeurs mais pas ces drôles de grands électeurs.
Les USA ont un système présidentiel, la suisse parlementaire. et l'on pourrait encore noircir des bouquins entiers de pages
Bref RIEN
Thank you for your contribution. We respect your opinion, of course - even if the differences in the system that you mention tend to indicate that you believe the US political system could benefit from Switzerland.
With regard to democratic institutions, however, I have to disagree with you: The countries' structures have influenced each other. For example, the Swiss system consisting of the National Council and the Council of States is modelled on the US system: https://www.swissinfo.ch/fre/democratie/les-r%c3%a9publiques-s%c5%93urs-ce-qui-lie-les-%c3%a9tats-unis-et-la-suisse/73364753
Vielen Dank für Ihren Beitrag. Wir respektieren natürlich Ihre Meinung - selbst, wenn die Unterschiede im System, die Sie benennen, ja eher darauf hinweisen, dass Sie glauben, das politische System der USA könne von der Schweiz profitieren.
Im Hinblick auf die demokratischen Institutionen muss ich Ihnen aber widersprechen: Die Strukturen der Länder haben sich gegenseitig beeinflusst. So ist etwa das Schweizer System aus National- und Ständerat dem US-amerikanischen nachempfunden: https://www.swissinfo.ch/fre/democratie/les-r%c3%a9publiques-s%c5%93urs-ce-qui-lie-les-%c3%a9tats-unis-et-la-suisse/73364753
How much albeit understandable anti-American animosity in the comments I read.
Of course the US hasn't won a war since the Korean War, but it still liberated the world from Nazi-fascism.
By now the initial question (what can he learn...) is hardly apt.
One should distinguish in specific areas. Perhaps the most interesting thing would be a comparison of education systems, at all levels. Basic education in the USA leaves a lot to be desired, and conversely the large universities seem to be a model, but perhaps they are not, at least from a socio-political point of view....
quanta sia pur comprensibile animosità antiamericana nei commenti che leggo.
Certo che gli USA non hanno più azzeccato una guerra dai tempi della guerra di Korea, ma hanno pur sempre liberato il mondo dal nazifascismo.
Ormai è poco azzeccata la domanda iniziale (che cosa può imparare...).
Si dovrebbe distinguere in settori specifici. Forse la cosa più interessante sarebbe un confronto tra i sistemi educativi, a tutti i livelli. L'istruzione di base negli USA lascia molto a desiderare e viceversa le grandi UNIversità sembrano un modello, ma forse non lo sono almeno dal punto di vista socio-politico....
In my opinion, they have nothing in common from birth, Switzerland was born out of a common idea of mutual solidarity and freedom, the USA formerly a prison colony, exterminated an indigenous people, and followed the law of the Talion, the strongest suppress the weakest, and are still like that, determined to colonise the world.
As can be seen everywhere in the world, and in the massacres even in educational facilities at home.
They are also arms exporters par excellence, and those who possess them sooner or later use them.
I hope that Europe will be able to get out of the juggernaut imposed after the Second World War.
History, I recall, is written by the victors
rarely by the vanquished.
Secondo me non hanno nulla in comune a partire dalla nascita, la Svizzera nasce per una idea comune di reciproca solidarietà e libertà, gli USA ex colonia di detenuti, stermina un popolo indigeno, e segue la legge del taglione, il più forte sopprime il più debole, e sono ancora così, decisi a colonizzare il mondo.
Come si vede un po’ ovunque nel mondo, e nelle stragi anche in strutture educative di casa loro.
Inoltre esportatore d’armi per eccellenza e chi le possiede prima o poi le usa.
Spero che Europa riesca a togliersi il giuoco imposto dopo la seconda guerra mondiale.
La Storia,ricordo, viene scritta dai vincitori
raramente dai vinti .
Switzerland cannot and should not learn anything from the USA! The supposed democracy in the USA has degenerated into a plutocracy, the armaments-industrial complex is in charge, the gap between rich and poor is constantly growing, and economically the USA would be bankrupt if the dollar were not the world's trading currency (note the negative trade balance!). No other country has initiated more wars in the last hundred years and has more war victims on its conscience, no other country has the arrogance of the USA to have to play the world's policeman. The US-led NATO is not a defence alliance but an offensive pact and the EU is dancing to the US tune and ruining itself. The fact that the USA is concerned about democracy in other countries is nothing more than a bad joke.
Die Schweiz kann und soll nichts von den USA lernen! Die vermeintliche Demokratie in den USA ist zur Plutokratie verkommen, das Sagen hat der Rüstungsindustrielle Industrie-Komplex, die Kluft zwischen Arm und Reich wächst unentwegt, und wirtschaftlich wären die USA pleite, wäre der Dollar nicht die Welthandelswährung (man beachte die negative Handelsbilanz!). Kein anderes Land hat in den letzten hundert Jahren mehr Kriege initiiert und mehr Kriegsopfer auf dem Gewissen, kein anderes Land hat die Arroganz der USA, den Weltpolizisten spielen zu müssen. Die von den USA geführte NATO ist kein Verteidigungsbündnis, sondern ein Angriffspakt und die EU tanzt nach der US-Geige und ruiniert sich selbst. Dass es der USA in anderen Ländern um die Demokratie geht, ist nicht mehr als ein schlechter Witz.
So, in your opinion, could the USA learn from Switzerland?
Also könnte die USA Ihrer Meinung nach von der Schweiz lernen?
To say an apodictic 'Nothing' is to ignore history in general and the history of liberal and democratic institutions in particular. Switzerland copied the American federal constitution in almost everything and that already means a great deal. Relations between the USA and Switzerland have always been excellent, and after the victory over Nazi Germany with the decisive US contribution, they reached their peak. Indeed, throughout the 1950s and to some extent the 1960s, the USA was the inspiration for a new and more modern way of life, not least with its rock and jazz music. But the Swiss and European rancour against the USA began at least as early as the infamous '68, where the Americans were an easy target after the disastrous war in Vietnam. But very few know that the protest against the 'system' came from the USA and especially from the University of Berkeley, California. Then the protest movement spread throughout Europe from Paris. This continuous criticism against the USA was and still is embraced by the European left (!) to this day, especially by teachers, academics, 'intellectuals', artists and even the so-called 'leftists'. artists and even the so-called 'radical-chic' who always set the trend. Of course, with Trump this divisive phenomenon will continue to intensify, but Europe as a whole will continue to sail in the wake of the USA, having no other sustainable choices, especially commercial ones. Finally, it should be remembered that almost all innovations since the post-war period have come from the US, including IT. To deny this would only be foolish.
Dire un "Nulla" apodittico, significa ignorare la storia in generale e quella delle istituzioni liberarli e democratiche in particolare. La Svizzera copiò la costituzione federale americana in quasi tutto e già questo significa moltissimo. I rapporti fra USA e Svizzera furono da sempre ottimi e dopo la vittoria sulla Germania nazista col determinante contributo USA, raggiunsero l'apice. Infatti per tutti gli anni'50 e in parte anche '60, gli USA furono gli ispiratori di un nuovo e più moderno modo di vita, non da ultimo con la sua musica rock e Jazz. Però l'astio svizzero e dell'Europa contro gli USA, iniziò almeno dal famigerato '68 , ove gli americani furono facile bersaglio dopo la disastrosa guerra in Vietnam. Ma ben pochi sanno che la protesta contro il "sistema" provenne proprio dagli USA e soprattutto dall'università di Berkeley, California. Poi il movimento protestatario dilagò in tutta Europa partendo da Parigi. Questa critica continua contro gli USA fu ed è tuttora abbracciata dalla sinistra europea (!) sino a tutt'oggi, soprattutto dagli insegnanti, universitari, "intellettuali" , artisti e anche dai cosiddetti "radical-chic" che fanno sempre tendenza. Certo che con Trump questo fenomeno divisivo continuerà ad acuirsi, ma l'Europa tutta continuerà a navigare nella scia degli USA, non avendo altre scelte sostenibili, soprattutto commerciali. Va infine ricordato che quasi tutte le novità, a partire dal dopoguerra, provennero dagli USA, informatica compresa. Negarlo sarebbe solo da stolti.
How badly researched is this article? The correspondent actually claims that these Swiss settlers colonised uninhabited land. So what about the indigenous population of the time? She probably thinks it was negligible
Wie schlecht ist dieser Beitrag recherchiert? Die Korrespondentin behauptet tatsächlich, dass diese Schweizer Siedler unbesiedeltes Land besiedelten. Was ist dann mit der damaligen indigenen Bevölkerung? Wahrscheinlich denkt sie,vernachlässigbar
Thank you for your comment. Which article are you referring to?
Danke für Ihren Kommentar. Auf welchen Beitrag beziehen Sie sich?
It's actually not clear which post you are referring to @Sardasca. On the one hand, we have highlighted ethnocide in North America in articles: https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/kultur/handlanger-des-amerikanischen-ethnozids/46767796
On the other hand, the more recent article on Swiss emigration also addresses the fact that Diebold von Erlach interfered in the affairs of indigenous people: https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/swiss-abroad/wie-schweizerinnen-in-die-usa-einwanderten-und-welche-spuren-sie-hinterlassen-haben/86667995
Es ist tatsächlich nicht klar, auf welchen Beitrag Sie sich beziehen @Sardasca. Wir haben einerseits in Beiträgen den Ethnozid in Nordamerika beleuchtet: https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/kultur/handlanger-des-amerikanischen-ethnozids/46767796
Andererseits geht ja auch der jüngere Beitrag über die Schweizer Auswanderung eingangs darauf ein, dass sich Diebold von Erlach in die Angelegenheiten von Indigenen einmischte: https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/swiss-abroad/wie-schweizerinnen-in-die-usa-einwanderten-und-welche-spuren-sie-hinterlassen-haben/86667995
The USA has a strange relationship with direct democracy. The politicians don't want any interference from the plebs! You can see this in Florida, where the deSantis government is doing everything it can to thwart a vote to allow abortion. So far, all pro-abortion bills have passed, even in the very conservative rural states. The other example is book-banning. A single voter can have unpopular books banned from school and public libraries! These are usually books about minorities that offend the "Christians". Americans always insist on their freedoms, even when they curtail the rights of others, according to the motto: "I do what I want and you do the same!" Not a society I want to live in.
Die USA haben ein seltsames Verhältnis zur direkten Demokratie. Die Politiker wollen keine Einmischung vom Plebs! Man sieht dies in Florida, wo die Regierung von deSantis mit allen Mitteln eine Abstimmung hintertreibt, die Abtreibung zulassen will. Bis jetzt sind alle Pro-Abtreibungs Vorlagen angenommen worden, sogar in den sehr konservativen ländlichen Staaten. Das andere Beispiel ist Buch-Bann. Ein einziger Wähler kann unliebsame Bücher aus Schul- und öffentlichen Bibliotheken verbannen lassen! Das sind dann meistens Bücher über Minderheiten, die den “Christen” aufstoßen. Die Amerikaner pochen immer auf ihre Freiheiten, auch wenn sie Rechte der andern beschneiden, nach dem Motto: “Ich mache, was ich will, und du machst das auch!” Nicht eine Gesellschaft, in der ich leben möchte.
In other words, you would call for a different understanding or different protection for the states with direct democratic votes in the USA? How could the country learn from Switzerland?
Das heisst, Sie würden ein anderes Verständnis oder einen anderen Schutz für die Staaten mit direktdemokratischen Abstimmungen in der USA fordern? Wie könnte das Land da von der Schweiz lernen?
Coarse subjective comment and therefore wrong!
Commento soggettivo grossolano e perciò sbagliato!
The US could learn that states should have more power than the federal government. Switzerland could learn what happens when the federal government takes power from the states: polarization. Democracy is not freedom. It is just voting. What you can vote on determines how much freedom you have. If we must vote for what we shall all have for dinner, that is democracy but it is not freedom.
As a Belgian who is in favor of direct democracy, i see many advantages in general over representative democracy, and some of the issues i think we face in our society are similar to that of the US to an extend as being a product of "some lack of democracy".
The Swiss seem to have their politicians "far more on a leech", the possibility that any new law or project could easily be shot down by a petition puts more of a brake on "predatory politics". Politics in Belgium are imho pretty nepotist, the politicians + the party's are payed huge sums and and they are a numerous group, raising their income was one of the few things they could agree on in the many state reforms they had over the last decades. There is a "minimal vote requirement" of 5% for a party to get "party funding" giving the established party's more of a monopoly and Belgian citizens have the legal duty to vote which thereby also seemingly legitimizes the representative system.
Another issue is that of populist politics in representative democracy. Self proclaimed "champions of the people" who are everything but thrive on anti-establishment narratives which become appealing to a part of the electorate, though many times those populist politicians are as much establishment as it can get and they just sell that narrative as a "brand". The thing is, i presume its much harder to employ that political strategy if the established system is mostly just the product of the will of the citizens, It's easier i think to organize a whole political campaign on denouncing your careerist political opponent than it is by denouncing the choices the people have made, the Swiss are their own populist champions.
Its notable also how different the relations between language groups are in Belgium and how that factors into our identity compared to the Swiss. It is my impression that the Swiss have far more national unity than we have in Belgium, and that might also be due to how some cultural identity politics have played out in Belgium trough representative democracy. Sometimes it was just to easy for the flemmish to blame the Wallonian politicians and vice versa.
Its not just Belgium, it's a theme that exists in many representative democracies, just like in the US. Trump couldnt be the most Entitled "champion of the people" ever full stop, its just rediculous, and its just the same denunciary politics aimed at scapegoats a a means to receive poltical "carté blanche" for whatever policy they actually want to pursue withought the electorate still having a chance to further intervene or even to ask for political recall. All must be decide in one big money electoral show where the people must be dazzled. What you actually get is a system that is logically more self serving to its establishment at the expense of the broader electorate.
Any direct democratic society though also needs a sufficiently politically concious, educated and committed people to succeed to a acceptable degree. I do thing Belgians are generally educated enough but we dont have "the experience" of ruling our self and we wont learn much if we dont start doing it more.
You could learn us that "we have the self determinist right to have direct democracy if we choose it", you can learn us what laws and institutions are required to establish and uphold that direct democratic system. What "Fora" you would use for social media to discuss politics in a world where social media and control of it has become "often troublesome". Your past actions can provide insights on how this system works and it's electorate behaves.
Thank you for your description from Belgium - but referendums can of course also further intensify polarisation, at least in relation to individual issues: Populist decisions, which professional politicians might tend to shy away from, are taken when voters express their opinions in certain areas.
Incidentally, are you aware that direct democracy is more pronounced in US states than anywhere else in the world outside of Switzerland?
https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/demokratie/schweizer-politikwissenschaftler-die-usa-erlebt-diesen-november-einen-rekord-an-abstimmungen-%c3%bcber-abtreibungsrechte/87458700
Vielen Dank für Ihre Schilderung aus Belgien - selbstverständlich können Volksabstimmungen die Polarisierung aber auch weiter zuspitzen, zumindest bezogen auf einzelne Themen: Populistische Entscheide, von denen professionelle Politiker:innen vielleicht eher zurückschrecken, werden getroffen, wenn die Stimmberechtigten in gewissen Bereichen ihre Meinung zum Ausdruck bringen.
Sind Sie sich übrigens bewusst, dass die direkte Demokratie in US-Bundesstaaten ausgeprägter ist als irgendwo sonst auf der Welt ausserhalb der Schweiz?
https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/demokratie/schweizer-politikwissenschaftler-die-usa-erlebt-diesen-november-einen-rekord-an-abstimmungen-%c3%bcber-abtreibungsrechte/87458700
Hello
The politicians in Switzerland do more or less what they want because our Federal Constitution "is not authoritative law thanks to Art. 190.
Grüezi
Die Politiker in der CH machen mehr oder weniger was sie wollen weil unsere Bundesverfassung "Dank Art. 190 kein massgebendes Recht ist.
I was aware of this. Then again, thats mostly on the state level afaik while the federal government is a very different beast. I have discussed this for example in relation to public infrastructure, as you might be aware your country has very good and highly used rail infrastructure while this is quite lacking in the US. I asked people from the US whether they had the possibility to decide over such infrastructure and its funding at the direct democratic level the way the Swiss for example decided to build and fund the Gotthard base tunnel among others. it appears though that this is mostly handled on the federal level where the public hardly can intervene, and the federal government is rather too much car and plane centric for many Americans taste.
On the federal level democracy seems more flawed. The way the electoral college works can allow a presidential candidate to become president trough a significantly lower popular vote count than his opponent even within that binary 2 party option, lest not to speak even about many tricks that influence it like Gerrymandering. Furthermore, the function and actions of the US supreme court have historically often been quite questionable, partizan and even destabilizing.
Anyway, the point of me coming here is mostly to learn about direct democracy in Switzerland and how it could be of benefit for or own country, so im gratefull for the feedback and will likely participate in more discussions here to have a feeling how Swiss feel about their own system and its characteristics and how the public debate is held. though i have to admit i'm also intrigued by this site as to its function as public political forum and the way the debates are held.
Thank you for your detailed reply, Mr Ringers. Please let us know if you are looking for an article on a specific topic - I will be happy to help you!
You can also register for the newsletter crash course on the Swiss political system here: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/become-a-democracy-pro-in-four-weeks-sign-up-now/48719890
Vielen Dank für Ihre ausführliche Antwort, Herr Ringers. Teilen Sie uns gerne mit, wenn Sie einen Artikel zu einem bestimmten Thema suchen - dann versuche ich Sie gerne zu unterstützen!
Hier können Sie sich zudem für den Newsletter-Crashkurs über das politische System der Schweiz anmelden: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/become-a-democracy-pro-in-four-weeks-sign-up-now/48719890
Yes America was bad to the indigenous people. Today many indigenous people are the wealthiest Americans and we are returning stewardship of the land. We have a lot of work to do but it is happening.
Yes America was bad with slavery, it is not fixed but it is getting better. Now we are best friends, the kids all dress and talk the same, it is now the same culture, we are becoming one people. It is why there is such an outcry over any perceived racism here.
To put it into perspective, my local hospital speaks 170 languages. We are a racially integrated society that leverages our people to make us successful internationally, we even have the Swiss immigrants that moved to Utah many years ago. I like to think we learned how to use our cultural integration as an advantage from the working blueprint in Switzerland.
Yes American politics are crazy, but they are about as real as American wrestling. It is like the Andy Kaufman political show, and it is fantastic entertainment for the whole world . . . but lets be honest, we are who we are because our government does what our businesses need them to do, so we can compete internationally. In reality we are very stable, logical and rational, very much like the Swiss.
Sure I wish we would learn to be more neutral like Switzerland again. Choosing sides in a war is almost always a bad look.
I wish we were as clean, on time, and organized like Switzerland. I wish America smelled as fantastic as Switzerland, my city sometimes smells like a sewer.
I wish Americans understood the value of leisure like the Swiss, we both work a lot but I think you guys have more fun than we do.
Thank you very much for your comment - written as captivatingly as a politician's speech!
So you don't believe that polarisation in the US is a real risk for social cohesion? https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/democracy/trump-biden-and-hatred-how-us-polarisation-affects-americans-in-switzerland/84180825
Vielen Dank für Ihr Kommentar - mitreissend geschrieben wie die Rede eines Politikers!
Sie glauben also nicht, dass die Polarisierung in den USA ein echtes Risiko ist für die soziale Kohäsion? https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/democracy/trump-biden-and-hatred-how-us-polarisation-affects-americans-in-switzerland/84180825
what ideas they can use to win the trust of their citizens?
Well, I think that DIRECT DEMOCRACY, should be an active agenda promoted by Switzerland to anyone including our EU friends.
it is amazing how people know little about it (on purpose!) and when they learn about it, think it should be adopted in their country
My overall feeling is that people are increasingly feeling powerless to make change because the democratic institutions have been "hijacked" by too many un-elected people who just seek power for power. We are getting entangled in a web of too many regulations which create too many frictions in all aspects of day to day life and "common sense" is being trashed under the supervision of those "un-elected" .
The distrust is becoming a battleground of "we" against them.
Thank you for your description! So you are of the opinion that referendums could put the brakes on dwindling trust? The contrast between "us" and "them" could also be softened by a multi-party system, for example.
Many US states have direct democratic referendums. They are now experiencing a new dawn, especially with the end of Roe v Wade: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/democracy/why-the-us-and-switzerland-are-direct-democracy-sister-republics/87536566
Vielen Dank für Ihre Schilderung! Sie sind also der Meinung, dass Volksabstimmungen das schwindende Vertrauen bremsen könnten? Der Gegensatz zwischen "wir" gegen "sie" könnte ja beispielsweise auch über ein Mehrparteiensystem aufgeweicht werden.
Viele US-Bundesstaaten kennen direktdemokratische Volksrechte. Gerade mit dem Ende von Roe vs. Wade erleben sie nun einen Aufbruch: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/democracy/why-the-us-and-switzerland-are-direct-democracy-sister-republics/87536566
I don't really even consider the US a democracy since the people don't directly vote for their President because the electoral votes outweigh the popular vote. This means that a handful of electors determines who is President rather than the People. If it was a real democracy, both Gore and Hillary Clinton would have taken office as POTUS. One thing, though, that I do wish Switzerland could take from the US is the separation of church and State. I think Switzerland is still stuck in the dark ages in that regard, in some ways. Although it looks like the US might be taking steps backward now as conservatives try to force Americans to live according to their own religious ideologies. One thing I do appreciate about the Swiss system is that, unlike the US, it isn't limited to only two parties, which I think easily generates so much polarization and division, as we've seen in the US, where people are basically forced to choose between left or right. And as long as two opposing parties remain in power in the US, I think division will increasingly become a byproduct of that. It's also been forcing polarized thinking among voters and politicians, and in psychology, polarized thinking is considered a cognitive defect. (Apologies for any typos, as I'm typing this on my phone and don't see a means of previewing my post before I submit it).
Thank you very much for your exciting and varied contribution. How do you experience the proximity of church and state in Switzerland?
We have also dealt intensively with the issue of polarisation: https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/demokratie/trump-biden-und-der-hass-wie-us-amerikanerinnen-in-der-schweiz-die-polarisierung-erleben/83968569
Vielen Dank für Ihren spannenden und vielseitigen Beitrag. Wie erleben Sie denn die Nähe von Kirche und Staat in der Schweiz?
Mit der Frage der Polarisierung haben wir uns auch intensiv auseinandergesetzt: https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/demokratie/trump-biden-und-der-hass-wie-us-amerikanerinnen-in-der-schweiz-die-polarisierung-erleben/83968569
If you do not consider the US to be a democracy because, in the final step of the process, it is "electors" that pick the president (the executive branch of government), then Switzerland is not a democracy either! The executive branch in Switzerland is the Federal Counsel, and its members are elected by the National Counsel ("Congress") and not by popular vote! Both systems are designed this way on purpose so that the big citiy-population centers (which usually vote more liberal) are not constantly outvoted by the less densely populated rural areas (which usually vote more conservative).
Just sayi'n!
I see almost only deplorable anti-US (!) comments down here due to the 'woke' subculture. They blithely forget that it was the USA that inspired the French revolution and the charter of human rights! Switzerland then endowed itself with a liberal confederal constitution inspired by the US model. They also forget the enormous contribution to modernity due to the countless American inventions, including the electric light. It is well known that gratitude is spat out sooner or later, and Europe today even believes that it liberated itself during the two world wars! Unfortunately, ignorance and woke culture today run rampant without limits.
Vedo qui sotto quasi solo deplorevoli commenti in disprezzo anti USA (!) dovuti alla subcultura "woke". Dimenticano bellamente che furono gli USA a ispirare la rivoluzione francese e la carta dei diritti dell'uomo! La Svizzera poi si è dotata di una costituzione liberale confederale ispirata al modello USA. Dimenticano pure l'enorme contributo alla modernità dovuto alle innumerevoli invenzioni americane, luce elettrica compresa. Si sa che purtroppo la gratitudine prima o poi la si sputa fuori, e l'Europa oggi crede addirittura di essersi liberta da sola durante le due guerre mondiali! Purtroppo l'ignoranza e la cultura woke oggi dilagano senza più limiti.
I think the comments below have nothing to do with "woke" culture but are just references to reality. There was nothing written that isn't essentially true. But I know some people such as yourself are very quick to label something as "woke" simply because you don't want to accept the reality of it. And yet if it wasn't for "woke culture" in the past, we'd still be enslaving white people, forcing child labor and not allowing women to vote. I'd rather be labeled as "woke" than to wear a blindfold.
Oops, that was obviously a typo. I meant "enslaving black people" in my other comment.
Thank you for your contribution - regardless of the reasons for the many comments criticising the USA, Switzerland has indeed learnt a lot from the USA.
I find the US role in the history of Geneva particularly fascinating:
Vielen Dank für Ihren Beitrag - unabhängig davon, was die Ursachen für die vielen Kommentare kritisch gegenüber den USA sind, hat die Schweiz tatsächlich einiges von den USA mitgenommen.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/demokratie/the-sister-republics-was-die-usa-und-die-schweiz-verbunden-hat/73047092
Besonders faszinierend finde ich die US-Rolle in der Geschichte von Genf:
https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/demokratie/zentrum-des-moralischen-universums-wie-das-internationale-genf-dank-den-usa-entstanden-ist/75840032
I agree with you that many comments have simply stated realities. The question that nevertheless arises: What is the motivation for telling these realities here?
SWI swissinfo.ch has always addressed the upheavals of colonialism: https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/kultur/handlanger-des-amerikanischen-ethnozids/46767796
Comments along the lines of "Countries can't learn anything from each other because ..." are almost off-topic. When the question is WHAT countries could learn from each other.
Ich stimme Ihnen zu, dass viele Kommentare einfach Realitäten benannt haben. Die Frage, die sich gleichwohl stellt: Was ist die Motivation dazu, diese Realitäten hier zu erzählen?
SWI swissinfo.ch hat die Verwerfungen des Kolonialismus immer auch thematisiert: https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/kultur/handlanger-des-amerikanischen-ethnozids/46767796
Kommentare im Stil von "Die Länder können nichts voneinander lernen, weil ..." sind ja beinahe off-topic. Wenn die Frage ist, WAS die Länder von einander lernen könnten.
You get angry when the problems of the United States are mentioned, but they are very real, even if it's also a country that reacts very quickly and encourages creativity and individual enterprise. Having lived there and taken an interest in the political system, we can only conclude that it is in fact big business and the very wealthy who decide the direction of policy through the money they hand out to politicians. Segregation is real and has tangible consequences for people. The Supreme Court is interfering and dictating the actions of the executive, which seems all the same very strange for a democratic system. Please explain why you consider this to be woke intoxication so that we can better understand your point of view. Thank you
Vous vous fâchez lorsque les problèmes des Etats-Unis sont mentionnés, cependant ils sont bien réels même si c'est aussi un pays qui réagit très vite, qui favorise la créativité et l'entreprise individuelle. Pour y avoir habité et m'être intéressée au système politique, on ne peut que constater qu'effectivement ce sont plus les grandes entreprises et les gens très fortunés qui décident des orientations par le biais de l'argent qu'ils distribuent aux politiciens. La ségrégation est réelle et a des conséquences concrétes pour les gens. La cour suprême s'immisce et dicte les actions de l'exécutif, ce qui parait tout de même très étrange pour un systéme démocratique. Expliquez-nous pourquoi vous assimilez cela à de l'intoxication woke afin que nous puissions mieux comprendre votre point de vue. Merci
Nothing - Switzerland can learn nothing from the US plutocracy, which falsely calls itself a democracy, but is based on brutal violence, since the genocide of the indigenous people and the terrible slavery system; it is a system with many political prisoners, a brutal, privatised prison system and with hundreds of wars, forced changes of government, acts of terrorism abroad, with 1000 military bases and with sanctions against almost a fifth of all states in violation of international law.
Nichts - die Schweiz kann nichts von der US-Plutokratie lernen, die sich fälschlicherweise Demokratie nennt, aber auf brutaler Gewalt beruht, seit dem Genozid an den Ureinwohner:innen und dem schrecklichen Sklavensystem; es ist ein System mit vielen politischen Gefangenen, einem brutalen, privatisierten Gefängnissystem und mit hunderten von Kriegen, erzwungenen Regierungswechseln, Terrorakten im Ausland, mit 1000 Militärbasen und mit völkerrechtswidrigen Sanktionen gegen fast einen Fünftel aller Staaten.
A view distorted ideologically to the extreme left (!) by the 'woke' mentality, also coming from the American democrats. This anti-US hatred-disdain has been typical of the European 'intelligentsia' since at least '68. He blithely forgets that without US intervention during the two world wars, Europe would probably no longer even exist, because it was subservient to the Reich or the USSR. He also forgets that our modern way of life comes almost entirely from the USA with 80% of recent inventions included.
We may admit that there is too much violence and crime from them, but if you look at European metropolises (banlieues) we are not that far off. And fortunately there are hundreds of US military bases around the world, also for OUR defence against Russia and China, to which we contribute almost nothing. With Trump, however, we profiteers, who boast a good social system precisely because we leave the burden of our defence 80% to the USA, which they cannot afford!
Un visione distorta ideologicamente a sinistra estrema (!) dalla mentalità "woke", pure di provenienza dai democratici americani. Questo odio-disprezzo anti USA, è tipico dell' "intellighenzia" europea almeno dal lontano '68. Costui dimentica bellamente che senza l'intervento degli USA durante le due guerre mondiali, l'Europa probabilmente non esisterebbe nemmeno più, perché sottomessa al Reich o all'URSS. Dimentica pure che il nostro moderno stile di vita proviene quasi tutto dagli USA con l' 80% delle recenti invenzioni comprese.
Ammettiamo pure che da loro c'è troppa violenza e criminalità, ma se si osservano le metropoli europee (banlieues) non siamo poi tanto distanti. E per fortuna che ci sono centinai di basi militari US nel mondo, anche a NOSTRA difesa contro Russia e Cina, a cui però non contribuiamo quasi in niente. Con Trump però saremo costretti a contribuire pure noi approfittatori, che vantiamo un buon sistema sociale proprio perché lasciamo l'onere della nostra difesa per l'80% agli USA, che loro non possono permetterselo!
Why do you label any critical comments about the US as being hatred of the US? And why do you label everything as "woke" simply because you don't agree with it? You should debate what is actually said and the points that were made rather than simply throwing your labels around and essentially resorting to "name-calling." It's true that the US profits from wars, as the world's #1 weapons manufacturer. The effects of the US industrial military complex were predicted by one if its own Presidents (Eisenhower) many years ago. Please do some actual research and try to put your own biases in check before instinctively labeling something as "woke" or "anti-American." Simply because you don't WANT something to be true doesn't make it any less true.
The most important thing to learn is to NOT follow the American example. It is not a true democracy. Regardless of which party is voted in, there is a remarkable consistency of domestic and foreign initiatives. Why? because it is lobby groups who determine policies and outcomes.
What we can learn is how to protect our political processes and elected officials from lobby groups by enabling better transparency and rules.
Thank you for describing your impressions! And how could American democracy become more democratic again?
Vielen Dank für das Schildern Ihrer Eindrücke! Und wie könnte die amerikanische Demokratie denn wieder demokratischer werden?
By having more than just two political parties
For one thing, do away with the electoral college and let the People / popular vote actually determine election outcomes. Also yes, eliminate the possibility of lobbyists and corporations to sway politicians and the choices they make. Part of the problem with the US is that it's become so polarized between two sides that there is no objective oversight. It's Iike being forced to sit back and watch two groups of kids constantly fight back and forth and not having the ability to step in and try to inject any rationality or neutrality in an attempt to bring them to their senses. We are basically forced to just sit back and watch them try to destroy one another. Perhaps if the power was more diluted and not restricted between two warring parties then the division would be more diluted and less people would be wearing the blindfold of bias.
Thank you very much - you are describing a really pressing problem that we as a society must constantly wrestle with: The separation of opinion and facts.
Do you not see any actors working against this? For example, at universities, in journalism or from civil society?
You are not the only person who perceives this and suffers from it.
Vielen Dank - da schildern Sie ein wirklich drängendes Problem, um das man als Gesellschaft stetig ringen muss: Die Trennung von Meinung und Fakten.
Sehen Sie denn keinerlei Akteure, die dem entgegenwirken? Etwa an den Universitäten, im Journalismus oder aus der Zivilgesellschaft?
Sie sind ja nicht die einzige Person, die das so wahrnimmt und darunter leidet.
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