What do you need in order to have trust in political institutions?
Stable country, stable currency, stable lifestyles: in an international comparison, many things run smoothly in Switzerland.
One prerequisite for a functioning democracy is trust in the judiciary, politics, police and the media. For this reason we are focusing on the topic of trust in a series.
We look at how this question has fared in the past, at how trust is doing in the present and what stumbling blocks Switzerland is facing. And we would like to ask you about your own views on trust:
What do you need in order to have trust in the institutions of your country of residence?
From the article Why people in Switzerland trust the state
Quite simply the truth! Freedom of speech. Especially from politicians and the media who have been lying to us for a long time and taking us for fools.
Ganz Einfach die Waraheit! Die Meinungsfreiheit.. Vor allem von Politiker und den Medien die uns schon seit lärem nur noch belügen und uns für dum halten.
RE: medical interpretation: " You are sensitive to noise" is wrong. The ear is designed to be sensitive to noise 24/7. The ear never shuts down. It is designed to keep us informed of what is happening in our environment. not only is this interpretation wrong, it is unjust by transferring the problem to the victim.The short term solution was to go out into the street and sleep on a bench.The long term solution is to change one`s flat but this transfers the noise pollution to the next person. Federal Policy: Tranquility is not a luxury but a necessity...... Rest is precious, a natural resource that is indispensable for people`s health. But not in Zurich. The Swiss Constitution upholds the rights of citizens as a pillar of the Rule of Law. The right to a physical shelter refers to a home in which to live in security, peace and dignity.The tenent has a right to the quiet enjoyment of one`s flat. Section 4, Environment & Spatial Planning Art 4 the Confederation shall legislate on the protection of the population and its natural environment against damage and NUISANCE. It shall ensure that such damage or nuisance are borne by those responsible for causing it. The bakery response was: This is how its going to be. After not being able to sleep for 4 months I collapsed with brain fog, pain in the neck and shoulder and dizzyness and was treated in hospital. Management came to the flat at 2am with the bakery manager, heard the noise and he stopped it immediatly. It was a problem related to the oven. I have not recovered to the state of health I was before.
To actually see crooked politicians go to prison for their crimes.
Switzerland says it is a democracy but democracy ends at the gates of parliament.
While the Federal Government provides robust policy and Federal Acts to protect citizens from noise pollution, the civil service in Zurich does not follow with adequate noise monitoring and enforcement of Federal Acts and NORM 181 2020.The impact of noise on health is well established, including the impact of noise disturbance on sleep (WHO). The National Action Plan for Noise Pollution Reduction (2017) has not achieved to protect citizens. Report is still not available. refused. The suggestion of Alain Berset that noise pollution and management be included in the course of architects has not been heeded. Bakeries mixed in with flats produce noise overnight preventing sleep 11pm to 7am. The bakery response was "this is how it is." bafu/ Boegli et al, 5 Nov2023 provided good details to pursue. NAO Art.12 Bakery expansion: Full Due Dilligence inspection needed/NORM181to assess noise emissions in all its attributes from pumps, oven cooler, fans, hot air exhaust; inspection of insulation quality of walls (form S required)/noise protection in construction projects. measurement of noise should be done by a qualified engineer to measure noise in ALL its attributes. Noise transmission from North to South and South to North indicates poor wall insulation/NORM 181. Has form S been provided? Pumps stuck to concrete, no insulation to dampen vibrations, bakery refuses to install insulation. Enforcement not provided at law.
Bakeries should be required to have an inspection when equipment is modified or new equipment installed and a full inspection every year. To protect citizen health bakeries should NOT be mixed in with human habitation.
To trust in the political institutions, Citizen should feel they listen, and listen carefully and often. When National Institutions, Regional or Local, listen just and only when election times, and leave citizens unattended the rest of the time, is not suprising that people dont trust on them.
Thank you so much for your contribution! What channels of dialogue are there that give you the impression that you are really being heard?
Vielen Dank für Ihren Beitrag! Welche Wege des Dialogs gibt es denn, die Ihnen den Eindruck vermitteln, dass Sie wirklich gehört werden?
to trust an institution it is necessary that our identity is safe, and the performance of the institution and its collaborators and / or employees is reliable and their work is visible to the naked eye - I say this because I live in Argentina.
para confiar en una institución es necesario que nuestra identidad este segura , y el desempeño de la institución y sus colaboradores y / o empleados sea confiable y se vea su tarea a simple vista.- Esto lo manifiesto pues vivo en Argentina.-
Correction to the previous one
It is necessary, more than words, to feel that the services provided by the institutions are without discrimination, are useful, and are of quality. In other words, they must be perceived as fair, with equal rights and duties.
Correccion al anterior
Se necesita, más que las palabras, sentir que los servicios las instituciones prestan sean sin discriminación, sean útiles, y sean de calidad. En otras palabras deben ser percibidos como justos, con igualdad de derechos y deberes
To have faith in the political system, we must have fair and logical laws and procedures. Did you know that in some Swiss cantons, you can be liable for someone else’s taxes? If the seller of a house does not pay the tax on the profit made, then the buyer must pay the tax on the profit of the seller. You will only learn of this obscure law when the canton puts a lien on your house. Once you have been victimized in such a senseless way, trust is broken. How this illogical and inhumane law exists in Switzerland is beyond comprehension.
Hello together
To me once so much. I am 61, male, divorced, have 3 great adult children and have been interested in politics for a long time.
Means, I inform myself daily about the political events in Switzerland but also abroad. In addition, participate for many years actively in all votes.
To my regret, I have to answer the question posed at the beginning regarding trust in our institutions in the negative right now.
Sorry, but I am frustrated and have probably already completely lost confidence in Swiss politics and the entire Swiss system.
Nevertheless, thank you for setting up this survey. Whether Ihhmen held my contribution or not, you can decide.
Personally, it does me good to get here a possibility to let off steam. Thank you very much, merci beaucoup, grazzie mille.
Currently, I can no longer decide which party or which candidates I should vote for in the upcoming 2024 fall elections. It may also be that I will not vote for the first time.
My current status on Swiss politics and its institutions:
"I have lost confidence in the meantime"
What would it take on my part to gain or restore trust:
Quite a lot. Of course, I am also a realist and aware that what follows is wishful thinking.
- constitutional reform
- Abolition of parties
- Abolition of federalism, central national government, cession of competences from the cantons to the federal government
- Abolition of the small chamber
- Abolition of parties, instead of issue policy (weighting/priority)
- Decoupling of politics and economy (lobbying Wandelhalle, VR mandates, abstention in case of economic interdependence, ...)
- Away with the magic formula in the Federal Council
- The first guard belongs in the National and Federal Councils, i.e. our best brains. They leave their profession and are decently remunerated during the politically active time when they are in Bern.
- Practical proof of success of all parliamentarians (National Council, annually)
- Reorganization of the administration in Bern (streamlining and process and IT efficiency)
- Only factual discussions in parliament, no polarization, no badmouthing between parliamentarians with different views
- Focus on issues and ensure that the best representatives are active in Berne
Many thanks and greetings
Stefan
Hallo zusammen
Zu mir einmal soviel. Bin 61, männlich, geschieden, 3- tolle, erwachsene Kinder und seit langem politisch interessiert.
Bedeutet, ich informiere mich täglich über das politische Geschehen in der Schweiz aber auch im Ausland. Zudem nehme seit vielen Jahren aktiv an sämtlichen Abstimmungen teil.
Zu meinem Bedauern muss ich die eingangs gestellte Frage betreffend Vertrauen in unsere Institutionen gleich jetzt schon negativ beantworten.
Sorry, aber ich bin frustriert und habe das Vertrauen in die schweizer Politik-und dem gesamten System Schweiz vermutlich schon gänzlich verloren.
Dennoch, danke dass Sie diese Umfrage aufgesetzt haben. Ob Ihhmen mein Beitrag hielt oder nicht, können Sie entscheiden.
Mir persönlich tut es schon mal ganz gut, hier eine Möglichkeit zu bekommen, um Dampf azzulassen. Vielen Dank, merci beaucoup, grazzie mille.
Aktuell kann ich nicht mehr entscheiden, welcher Partei resp. welchen Kandidaten ich bei den anstehenden Herbstwahlen 2024 meine Stimme geben soll. Es kann auch sein, dass ich erstmals nicht abstimmen gehen werde.
Mein heutiger Status zur Schweizer Politik und deren Institutionen:
"Ich habe das Vertrauen inzwischen verloren"
Was bräuchte es meinerseits um Vertrauen zu gewinnen oder wieder herzustellen:
Eine ganze Menge. Natürlich bin ich auch Realist und mir bewusst, dass das was jetzt folgt Wunschdenken ist
- Verfassungsreform
- Abschaffung von Parteien
- Abschaffung Föderalismus, zentrale Landesregierung, Kompetenzabtretung der Kantone an den Bund
- Abschaffung der kleinen Kammer
- Abschaffung von Parteien, anstelle Sachthemenpolitik (Gewichtung/Priorität)
- Entkopplung von Politik und Wirtschaft (Lobbying Wandelhalle, VR-Mandate, Stimmenthaltung bei wirtschaftlicher Verflechtung,...)
- Weg mit der Zauberformel im Bundesrat
- Die erste Garde gehört in den National-und Bundesrat, also unsere besten Köpfe. Die verlassen ihren Beruf und werden in der politisch aktiven Zeit,wo sie in Bern sind, anständig entlöhnt
- Praktischer Erfolgs-Nachweis aller Parlamentarier (Nationalrat, jährlich)
- Reorganisation der Verwaltung in Bern (Abspecken und Prozess-und IT Effizienz)
- Nur noch sachliche Diskussionen im Parlament, keine Polarisierung, keine geg. Schlechtmachung zwischen Parlamentariern mit andern Ansichten
- Fokussierung auf Sachthemen und der Sicherstellung, dass hierfür die besten Vertreter in Bern aktiv sind
Vielen Dank und Gruss
Stefan
Hello Stefan!
Thanks for sharing and formulating these many considerations and thoughts - there are some exciting points in there.
How is it then, if you have lost trust in Swiss politics, does that also mean that you no longer believe that referendums change anything? There are regular initiatives on lobbying and transparency in particular.
Best regards
Benjamin von Wyl
Hallo Stefan!
Vielen Dank für das Teilen und Formulieren dieser vielen Erwägungen und Gedanken - da sind einige spannende Punkte drin.
Wie ist es denn, wenn du das Vertrauen in die Schweizer Politik verloren hast, bedeutet das auch, dass du nicht mehr daran glaubst, dass Volksabstimmungen etwas ändern? Gerade zu Lobbying und Transparenz gibt es ja regelmässig Initiativen.
Herzliche Grüsse
Benjamin von Wyl
The simple answer - if that exists... is "transparency".
Politicians make it very easy for their electorate to generate distrust by their actions: one has learnt to pay no heed to their words (unfortunately, a lesson learnt a very long time ago). Be it an issue mentioned in a political party's manifesto or a statement made by any politician that changes/improvements will be made and the probability of it NOT happening is 99.5%.
Obviously, there are many factors involved in such a state of affairs and, invariably, there are ostensibly good reasons (according to some people/corporations/lenders to the Government) to ensure either what they want to happen or vice versa.
Further complications arise when paid employees of the Government/Local Government decide that the policies set by the governing party/Parliament/council will not be implemented - in many cases because it is against the belief of that particular employee. Unfortunately, this is happening all to often in the UK at present - which suggests a lack of management, although the Home Office has to be commended in starting to rout out such disloyal public servants.
A good start in re-acquiring trust would be for senior politicians to stop giving 'lame' excuses for changes in policy or provide detailed reasons why a policy has been suspended, etc.
A further suggestion would be to counter the general belief that the vast majority of all politicians are "out of touch" with what is happening in the country. Let those leading actually drive on any motorway during the day and experience for themselves the delays caused by excess volumes of traffic for the motorway, let them go and listen to parents who fear that their children are not being taught the rudiments of what is required to be successful in Life, visit Surgeries and Hospitals and see for themselves the problems caused by inefficiencies and a system that cannot cope with excess volumes of people, etc. The list of what should be done to keep in touch with reality is endless then, if that is ever done, get back to the 'Day job" and DO something about these problems (and see that they are done): rather than talk about them endlessly.
The basics of Democracy are simple: the 'vested interests' and those with influence - with their own agendas - start causing the complexities.
Thank you very much for your thoughtful considerations and your experience in the UK!
By transparency, do you mean mainly transparency of a financial nature, or how do you understand the term?
In Switzerland, the majority of politicians have a job alongside politics - that's called the "milliz principle". However, some people also criticize this - because it could bring a disproportionately large number of people into politics who are not at all dependent on a secure income from politics.
Herzlichen Dank für Ihre wohlüberlegten Erwägungen und Ihre Erfahrungen im Vereinigten Königreich!
Meinen Sie mit Transparenz vor allem Transparenz finanzieller Natur, oder wie verstehen Sie den Begriff?
In der Schweiz hat die Mehrheit der Politikerinnen und Politiker einen Job neben der Politik - das heisst "Millizprinzip". Allerdings kritisieren das auch manche - weil es überproportional viele Leute in die Politik bringen könnte, die gar nicht auf ein gesichertes Einkommen durch die Politik angewiesen sind.
What it takes? This is actually easy to answer. Trust is based on the fact that what has been decided will be implemented. Is not pursued for years by politics in any way. For example, years ago they wanted to limit immigration - the opposite has happened. Compare Austria with Switzerland. Austria is twice as big and currently has about 8.9 million inhabitants. Switzerland with half the land has the same number. This is only one example. 2nd example the health insurance - was liberalized since then the costs exploded. Now one wants the same with the electricity market. Should one still believe a government with these experiences. In politics, people are more focused on themselves than on the task of serving the population. Likewise, no politician really dares to do anything anymore. Because, if not in the mainstream this could harm the career (thus also the lifelong pension depending on the position/function). Trust in politics... This question no longer arises for me personally. Too bad, am convinced voter etc. but....
Was es braucht? Dies ist eigentlich einfach zu beantworten. Vertrauen basiert darauf, dass das was beschlossen wurde umgesetzt wird. Wird seit Jahren von der Politik in keiner Weise verfolgt. So hat man z.B. vor Jahren die Zuwanderung beschränken wollen - das Gegenteil ist passiert. Man vergleiche einmal Oesterreich mit der Schweiz. Oe ist doppelt so gross und hat derzeit etwa 8.9 Mio Einwohner. Die Schweiz mit der Hälfte an Boden dieselbe Zahl. Dies ist lediglich ein Beispiel. 2tes Beispiel die Krankenkasse - wurde liberalisiert seither sind die Kosten explodiert. Nun will man dasselbe mit dem Strommarkt. Soll man mit diesen Erfahrungen einer Regierung noch Glauben schenken. In der Politik ist man mehr auf sich als auf den Auftrag, der Bevölkerung zu dienen fokussiert. Ebenso wagt sich kein Politiker mehr wirklich etwas. Weil, wenn nicht im Mainstream könnte dies der Karriere schaden (somit auch der lebenslangen Rente je nach Position/Funktion). Vertrauen in die Politik... Diese Frage stellt sich für mich persönlich nicht mehr. Schade, bin überzeugter Wähler etc. aber...
I understand that there are points in this direction. But don't you ever get the feeling that the government takes the risk of a referendum seriously on many issues and drafts laws accordingly with caution, because they could become a tit-for-tat for it in the event of a referendum?
Ich verstehe, dass es Punkte in dieser Richtung gibt. Haben Sie aber nie das Gefühl, dass die Regierung bei vielen Themen das Risiko eines Referendums ernst nimmt und entsprechend vorsichtig Gesetze entwirft, weil sie ihr bei einem Referendum zur Retourkutsche werden können?
Picking up on your quote "During a trip to Bern, it is sometimes possible to meet a member of the Swiss government, the Federal Council. He almost always travels without special protection."
A few years ago, during a trip to Lake Lugano, we met Councilwoman (and at the time President of the Swiss Confederation) Ms. Simonetta Sommaruga. She was inserting change into a parking meter in the company of her friends and without escorts.... After approaching her, she cordially shook hands with us.
Such encounters are inconceivable in the latitudes south of Canton Ticino.
But they show why the Swiss trust institutions.
Simonelli C. Varese
Riprendendo la Vostra citazione "Durante un viaggio a Berna, a volte è possibile incontrare un membro del Governo svizzero, il Consiglio federale. Quasi sempre viaggia senza protezione speciale".
Qualche anno fa, durante una gita sul lago di Lugano abbiamo incontrato la Consigliera (e all'epoca presidente della Confederazione) Sig. ra Simonetta Sommaruga. Stava inserendo le monetine in un parcometro in compagnia di suoi amici e senza scorte.. Dopo averla avvicinata ci ha stretto cordialmente la mano.
Tali incontri sono inconcepibili alle latitudini a sud del Canton Ticino.
Ma dimostrano perchè gli Svizzeri hanno fiducia nelle istituzioni.
Simonelli C. Varese
Thank you for sharing your anecdote - that surprises even me that members of the Federal Council operate the parking meter themselves.
Best regards from Basel!
Vielen Dank für das Teilen Ihrer Anekdote - das überrascht sogar mich, dass Mitglieder des Bundesrat selbst die Parkuhr bedienen.
Herzliche Grüsse aus Basel!
Liberté égalité fraternité and all controlled directly by the people
It will
Liberté égalité fraternité et tour ca controlé diréctement par le peuple
Ca va
And do you see these republican ideals realized in France today? What reforms would it need?
Und sehen Sie diese republikanischen Ideale im heutigen Frankreich realisiert? Welche Reformen würde es brauchen?
Trust in politics has already lost ground. The cabinet is made up of the LDP, which has been in power for a long time, and its factions. There have also been several previous interventions by the Cabinet in Supreme Court appointments. What is the separation of powers?
We are used to laws being changed without our permission in places that are not in the news.
The cabinet is full of irregularities and scandals. Only the parties involved are fired. The prime minister is held accountable for his appointments, but it always ends up being ambiguous. Even if you are involved in a scandal, you get your salary and bonus until you quit. What a money-making workplace!
The opposition parties keep splitting up and do not even try to unite to defeat the ruling party. Even in Congress, they end up making minor points and criticisms that are almost like field orders. They are unmotivated wage thieves.
Do you think we can regain trust from here? If we were to do it, let all the congressmen resign, invite a lot of national experts who are successful in politics and do as they say...it might get a little better.
政治への信頼は既に地に落ちている。内閣は長らく政権を維持している自民党とその一派で固められている。内閣による最高裁判所の人事への介入も過去に何度かあった。三権分立とは？
ニュースにならないところで勝手に法律変えているのももう慣れた。
内閣では不正、不祥事で溢れている。当事者だけ首。総理大臣は任命責任を問われるが、いつも曖昧になって終わる。不祥事を起こしても辞めるまでは給料とボーナスはもらえる。なんてお金が稼げる職場だろうか。
野党は分裂を繰り返し、団結して与党を倒そうともしない。議会でも、ほとんど野次のような細々とした指摘と批判して終わり。やる気のない賃金泥棒である。
ここから信頼を回復できると思う？もしやるとするなら、全員の議員を辞めさせて、政治で成功している国の有識者を沢山招聘して、彼らの言うとおりにしたら…少しは良くなるかもしれない。
We believe that transparency is essential for maintaining democracy, and that it is important for the prime minister and ministers to speak to the public about their policies and make them known to the public.
To this end, the public must be interested in politics.
Of course, the media is necessary to monitor the government, but I believe that a good cycle of politics can only be created when both the government and the people are in contact with each other.
I believe that democracy is a wonderful system, but it is difficult to maintain.
民主主義を維持する為には透明性が不可欠と考えているので、政策に関して首相や大臣が自らの口で国民に語り周知させる事が大事だと考えています。
その為には国民も政治に興味を持って貰わねばなりません。
もちろんメディアは政府の監視役として必要ですが、政治は政府と国民の双方が向き合って初めて良い循環が生まれる物と考えています。
民主主義は素晴らしい制度だと思いますが維持する事は難しいと改めて思いました。
"What do you need to have confidence in institutions?"
A rational, logical and comprehensible jurisdiction.
It just seems sadistic, counterproductive if a person only knows after a conviction what he is allowed to do and what not.
Many Swiss probably have a different understanding of the law than the ECHR. See the article by Helen Keller. Especially, doesn't ECHR Art. 15 violate the UN Convention on Human Rights?
"Was brauchen Sie, damit Sie Vertrauen in Institutionen haben können?"
Eine rationale, logische und nachvollziehbare Rechtsprechung.
Es wirkt einfach sadistisch, kontraproduktiv wenn eine Person erst nach einer Verurteilung weis was sie tun darf und was nicht.
Viele Schweizerinnen und Schweizer haben wohl ein anderes Rechtverständnis als die EMRK. Siehe Artikel von Helen Keller. Zumal, verstösst EMRK Art. 15 nicht gegen die Uno-Menschenrechtskonvention?
Thank you for your contribution - so you stand behind the ideas of the UN Convention on Human Rights and do not see them implemented by the ECHR?
Vielen Dank für Ihren Beitrag - Sie stehen also hinter den Ideen der UNO-Menschenrechtskonvention und sehen diese von der EMRK nicht umgesetzt?
Honesty, respect! Unfortunately, this is no longer present and certainly no longer self-evident. We have run the rule of law into the ground and trampled on our freedom. We allow our journalists and our politicians to bombard us with propaganda and lies and are scorned when we fight back. We are today so far that many are afraid to express themselves because it is not the opinion of the so-called majority. The Mahler of Austria also thought so and we know what has become of it. -- Our politicians are even ready to give up our neutrality, our direct democracy, to Brussels, which then decide for us. That borders almost on megalomania.
Ehrlichkeit, Respekt! Leider ist das nicht mehr vorhanden und schon gar nicht mehr selbstverständlich. Wir haben den Rechtsstaat in den Boden gestampft und unsere Freiheit mit Füßen getreten. Wir erlauben unseren Journalisten und unseren Politikern, uns mit Propaganda und Lügen zu bombardieren und werden verachtet, wenn wir uns wehren. Wir sind heute so weit , dass viele Angst haben sich auszudrücken, weil es nicht die Meinung der sogenannten Mehrheit ist. Der Mahler von Österreich dachte auch so und wir wissen was daraus geworden ist.-- Unsere Politiker sind sogar bereit, unsere Neutralität aufzugeben, unsere direkte Demokratie, Brüssel zu übergeben, die dann für uns entscheiden. Das grenzt geradezu schon an Größenwahns.
What is respect? From the point of view of some in Brussels, giving up autonomy and paying homage to the EU is perhaps a sign of respect.
Was ist Respekt? Aus der Sicht mancher in Brüssel ist es vielleicht ein Zeichen von Respekt wenn man die Autonomie auf gibt und die EU huldigt.
RE: which then decide for us.
The European Parliament is made up of the Members of Parliament (MEPS) from all the EU member states. The solution is to keep yourself informed and counter disinformation with the correct information.
A book that provides useful information is: Democracy, Principles and Governance, author T,S,Elton (2024). ISBN 978-1-916954-83-0
Repect for the constitution and independence between the powers, its almost absurd to remind swiss citizens that their nation is born on the oath taken by a rable of unwashed unkempt but strong of heart persons on the rutli and has endured for what 6 centuries when you look at the cankerous rubbish that spews forth from many politicions mouths over the planet, it maybe a case of be careful what you wish for perhaps..
An addendum the grandfather that instructed the father in the matter of compliance has swiss ancestry, so although not specifically stated i would guess, there are differences in the definition and application of the matters of compliance, does it matter that greatly, well if you look closly at the fathers efforts and the resulting fiasco, then it appears that the requirement is for a century of hard work to arrive back at the point you started, not for god or king and country but certainly not for the ego of an idiot
I think this is an important comment, so im going to post it in the simplest form i possibly can, my father was a very successful ceo of a shire in Australia, at a 55 years of age was 1 of 2 short scholarships to the college of advanced education in the nations capital Canberra.
His accounting training was with a local firm and of a high standard, but one day he recounted to me, that his instruction in compliance was taken from my gradfather, who was a house painter as his trade, of course at the time this was seemingly worthless knowledge. With the passage of time i came to the understanding that his success was a result of good governance and compliance and the father being the man that he was, was content to leave me in a half ignorant state, although in my defence i will say it didnt sit well in my beliefs hierarchy, however after approximately 2 years the relationship of the requirement for successful government finally arrived, there were 2 more funamental needs, trust and integrity, for a fully functional government there is a 4 pillar need, and each requirement is bound to the others like the night to the day. Now the father retired and the workers had to endure 6.5 years with no wage increase because the father in his time had advanced them that far in front of the national wage case that with the changing of the guard they were subject to a shift in attitude, now i dont want to be to long winded, but it appears that the difference in a miniscule variation in the definition and application of the delivery of compliance can have far reaching and profound implications, its not the be all and end all, there are other considerations like fiscal discipline and other matters, but here in Australia they have nil respect in these considerations and have a long way to go to repair/ reinstate these concepts, so far in fact i dont think these matters will be much for consideration in the balance of my life, but just the same lets not forget there are many good people in our society, and unfortunately many prize idiots also
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