Should people who refuse to wear face masks have to forfeit their hospital bed if there’s a shortage?
A Swiss health economist thinks it’s fairer for a Covid sceptic to lose out on the last hospital bed rather than just the oldest patient in the room.
We’d like to hear from you – what do you think about this? Are you in agreement and if so, why?
From the article Covid sceptics should be denied hospital beds, says economist
If you don't believe in the science of the mask, and you don't believe the virus is harmful, why do you believe in the science of the hospital to treat your "harmless" virus. Why are you cherry picking which bits of medical science to trust with your body?
Yet another irresponsible article from a website that seeks sow further seeds of division within an already divided society.
Why do you reference hypothetical scenarios such as this just to generate hatred towards fellow human beings? Why lower your journalistic standards to those of a UK 'tabloid'? Why not solve the problem instead through more creative solutions such as adding an extra bed?
Coincidentally, it is interesting to note that ICU capacity has declined steadily in Switzerland over the past 20 years... why are there no articles about this, given it is ICU capacity which has dictated a lot of recent policy decisions.
There should always be a degree of personal responsibility attached to the actions of the individual, trying to bring them to account for it is an almost impossible ask, are governments responsible for corona in that they never embraced passive solar design principles and as light kills viruses they have facilitated virus mutation and hence corona as well as climate catastrophe so if you apply the pragmatic rule a hospital bed or as billion dead from climate catastrophe does a bed really matter.... only if its your bed....
I'd gladly do so, if I also van visit musea, restaurants, cafés and skip all other ridiculous measures.
More people die in car accidents, of heart issues, diabetis and cancer. Please force anyone in a car accident to no longer be allowed insurance, anyone with diabetis, cancer and heart problems to pay far higher taxes. They are a bigger risk for society than the few people who get the virus and never die of it like all the politicians, actors and football players..
Seems like a slippery slope to me
Yes, if they do not believe then obviously they need no care...
Either you are in it and work with the people and do not think about yourselves and then you get treated if you get sick....non believers get no help
Empathy is the ultimate virtue. Only when acting out of empathy do we understand other people, meaning that the only way we can understand others who live in worry, dismay and fear our obligation to them is through empathy. When we do empathize with those in need and affected by this situation whether be on a business level, health level and so on , we understand their pain and need, and so we are obligated to help them and work in unity towards solutions .
If there have been those who doubted were of the common acceptance and concerns towards its fellow humans in this nation, those doubts by now should have been dispelled.”
Anyone with empathy will help a person who needs it, whether it is self-inflicted or not. We don't let accident victims die just because they were responsible for the accident. When mountain climbers get in trouble, teams of volunteers risk their own lives, often in horrendous weather, to come to their aid. There is no question of why or how they got into trouble. That's what humans do, illogical as it is.
The problem is that many people who don't wear masks don't believe in Covid, either. So they will not be put off. And most of them would not get Covid anyway, and come out of the epidemics with even stronger belief that the government is lying.
And do those people who think covid is an overblown scam get to opt out of the authoritarian, fascist-like lockdown measures and infringements on freedom those crippled with fear readily succumb to? Seems only fair.
I don’t understand the reality that some people are experiencing. Having an opinion that the restrictions are imposing, or even “fascist”, but what is the point of discussing an “opt out”? Do you think stores and businesses will adopt a Maskless Monday policy to allow a day per week to have their staff infected by conspiracy theorists?
Really...
Masks need to be strictly enforced, but doing triage based on opinion seems pretty scary to me. Beds should be given to those most likely to benefit from them if it has to get to that.
But people refusing to wear masks where mandated should face serious fines. Anyone on a train refusing should lose their privilege of using the train - have their half fare or GA taken away on top of a fine. That said, SBB and the regional trains should be forced to limit passengers to safe levels, even for commutes. Companies should encourage their employees to travel during less crowded times using flex time.
Have you tried to commute daily between Zurich and Lausanne with a mask? It is close to impossible to breath with it on for that long, especially from someone with asthma, sinusitis or breathing problems.
We had to threaten our employer with resignation for them to approve my husband's work from home. I'm in the same situation, waiting for an ok or an acceptance of the resignation and if they accept mine they have to also accept my husband's resignation as we will not stay in Switzerland on one salary.
You could obtain exemption with a medical certificate. I assume you wouldn't want to willingly put others around you at risk?
Please allow me to stop paying the medical insurance. With the 3800 a year I can get some good studies going and I will donate my bed to anyone who wants it. I do not need it nor do I need a doctor in a family where everyone works in medicine.
I agree completely.
We were able to reduce our insurance costs by still having an austrian insurance which covers international expenses.
I would be so much happier if we would not have to pay that mandatory medical insurance tax. It is the main reason we left our 3 children in Austria.
I imagine almost every unvaccinated person who ended up in hospital thought they'd never get sick. I also imagine most were glad they had insurance. You don't get much time in ICU for 3800CHF
Wrong question. Medical doctors hopefully will never have to decide who should live but in the extreme case they would choose the patient who has the best chance of survival. Remember, stupidity is not a criminal offense. If it were, we would need to build more prisons.
If it were we'd have no politicians.
No, masks are very expensive, reusable cloth ones are not a real medical mask, so it should not count. I can't afford buying a pack every week, so I don't go much and clean mask and reuse it. I can't apply to any help as I jyst graduated but none wants to hire now people without experience. So would you want me to die because I can't buy a mask bt do try to stay safe.
This economists remark is, unfortunately, counter-productive: sceptics will understand it as a proof that some circles try pushing vaccines through extra-legal grounds.
To answer a troll with a troll - logically, covid sceptics should also pay lower health insurance and lower taxes.
If and when I ride/drive a high-powered vehicle, the insurance companies make sure they burden me with a higher premium.
If I take part in high-risk sports or activities, they exclude me from their insurance coverage. If I go willfully to a war-zone country repeatedly, they exclude repatriation coverage.
With the same logic, why should Covidiots be given the same treatment and allocation to the limited ICU beds?
Once they go to protests or they post strong anti-government or anti-covid measures messages, encouraging people to go against the health measures, they are committing a crime already. A moral crime.
If they are infected, I suggest they treat themselves with Chlorox or some magic pills.
These people are the strong willed protestors in our midst. I am sure they will be more than happy to sign waiver forms when they apply for a Protest license.
Good idea! Lets extend it. People driving cars should forfeit the right to be treated after car accidents. They could be using public transport.
Although self-evident, I would add to my previous comment that reducing the risks of spread of coronavirus does not rely on any one single measure but a whole combination preventative measures. This is one of the reasons for which a number of the rules, of necessity, need to be flexible and adjusted accordingly as the pandemic evolves.
Should this argument be extended to all covid risk reduction rules?i.e. social distancing, reporting symptoms, testing, self-isolating, vaccination and adhering to any other local and national restrictions, etc.
Rather sad to think that it may come to this but...yes, if this is the only way to stop people from being so selfish...ALL of us must pull in the same direction.
Incurring high costs or having health issues because of a mask is not selfishness. If that would be the case then all the Swiss banks should be closed imediatelly after each fine they got in the past.
My husband has asthma and I have sinusitis, so we both have huge problems breathing with a mask on. Because of the train restrictions we had to buy 2 old cars to get around.
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