How has the pandemic affected your view of the pharmaceutical industry?
To some people, pharmaceutical and biotech companies are the heroes of the pandemic. To others, they are to blame for the challenges the world faces in putting an end to the pandemic.
What is your view of the industry and has it changed because of the pandemic? What do you think the pharma industry should do differently? What should we expect from the industry?
From the article Swiss pharma reckons with its past, present and future
From the article Podcast: What Covid-19 tells us about the pharma industry
Leaving it up to the companies to manufacture the drugs has proven to be risky.
The government buys expensive drugs from pharmaceutical companies and provides them free of charge. If that were the case, it would be less costly for the government to produce the drugs and could be provided more quickly.
Human lives should not be used for business.
薬を製造することを企業に任せることはリスクがあることが分かった。
政府は、製薬会社から高額の薬を買い、無料で提供している。だったら、政府が薬を作るほうがコストがかからず、早く提供できる可能性もある。
人の命が商売に利用されてはならない。
For me, as a Cuban emigrant by claim of my mother, now deceased in Puerto Rico, living with my family in Florida, United States since 1996, I consider that BiG Pharma are not the heroes of the pandemic but those who took advantage of the pandemic to profit with both hands, the real heroes of the pandemic are in Cuba where with free national vaccines to the entire population of the island have a much lower rate than those of the United States and currently have controlled the covid without obligation to use masks reinforcing primary care with Natural and Traditional Medicine (Holistic) prescription in primary care, but that is censored by the international press for purely ideological reasons.
Para mi, como cubano emigrado por reclamacion de mi madre, ya fallecida en Puerto Rico, viviendo con mi familia en Florida, Estados Unidos desde 1996, considero que la BiG Pharma no son los heroes de la pandemia sino que son los que se aprovecharon de la pandemia para lucrar a las dos manos, los verdaderos heroes de la pandemia estan en Cuba donde con vacunas nacionales gratuitas a toda la poblacion de la isla tienen una mucho menor tasa que las de Estados Unidos y actualmente han controlado el covid sin obligacion de usar mascaras reforzando la atencion primaria con la Medicina Natural y Tradicional (Holistica) de prescripcion en la atenion primaria, pero eso lo censura la prensa internacional por razones netamente ideologicas.
I think that during the pandemic, the rapid creation of a working vaccine was a plus. it probably helped many people to survive the covid in a mild form. it is hard to say, because most people had it before the vaccine was created. i myself had a mild form, with 25% damage to both lungs. but i think that now the vaccine is no longer relevant.
я считаю, что в пандемию быстрое создание работающей вакцины было плюсом. скорее всего она помогла многим пережить ковид в легкой форме. сказать трудно, потому что большинство переболело им еще до создания вакцины. я сама переболела в легкой форме, с 25% поражением обоих легких. но, думаю, что сейчас вакцина уже не актуальна.
I have always looked at pharmaceutical companies with suspicion. Their aim is not human wellbeing, but profit, so much so that medicines that are, to say the least, miraculously effective have been put out of production due to "market shortage" (which is to say that the people who suffer from a certain disease, perhaps a very serious one, are too few to merit a cure).
In America, the FDA is too corruptible. People go into debt for treatment and the pharmaceutical companies get rich. Dopesick, the docu-film, came out earlier this year. My confidence in pharmaceuticals (yes, even this vaccine) has plummeted.
Ho sempre guardato alle case farmaceutiche con sospetto. Il loro fine non è il benessere umano, ma il lucro, tanto è vero che medicinali a dir poco miracolosamente efficaci sono stati messi fuori produzione per "scarsità di mercato" (che equivale a dire che le persone che soffrono di una determinata malattia, magari gravissima, sono troppo poche per meritare una cura).
In America la FDA è troppo corruttibile. La gente si indebita per curarsi e le farmaceutiche ai arricchiscono. Dopesick, il docu-film, è uscito ad inizio anno. Il mio tasso di fiducia nei confronti delle farmaceutiche (si, anche di questo vaccino) è precipitato.
A big congratulations for the performance of the research. However, one should not exaggerate with salaries and costs. This is becoming a problem with all the billions in profits.
Un grand bravo pour les performances de la recherche. Toutefois, il ne faut pas exagérer avec les salaires et les coûts . Cela devient problématique, avec tous ces milliards de bénéfices.
It is not a surprise. The Opioids epidemic, the billion dollar lawsuits against big Pharma for medical and scientific fraud are not new. And specially now, I have developed aversion against Pfizer and Moderna specially. These institutions trade and make money with our health with no real interest in a cure but continuous treatments. That’s the world today.
A proposito di Pfizer: conosco persone che lavorano in ambito farmaceutico che già all'inizio del problema covid (intorno a marzo 2020) avrebbero scommesso qualunque cifra sul fatto che Pfizer sarebbe stata la maggiore attrice in caso di vaccino. Il perché è presto detto: dovevano risanare le casse dopo l'esborso di 2.3 miliardi di dollari dovuto per la class action contro di loro, il più ingente della storia medica. (https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history)
The drug industry will always get a bad press because it makes us put a price on patients' lives and reminds us of health inequalities in our own country and across the world. However drug companies neither set the price of new drugs nor create health inequalities - that is largely a government decision and is driven by economic factors. If the drug industry was not able to attract shareholder capital, it would not be able to bring all the medicines that have saved billions of lives in the last century to market, lives lost to diseases like tuberculosis and AIDS. And after around 10 years, the monopoly powers that allow drug companies to profit from their inventiveness disappears... but even then many drug prices remain too expensive for the world's poor. It is all very well saying that we should ration covid vaccines equitably and at cost, but the third world also needs doctors to treat ill patients, nurses to inoculate them, honest administrators to prevent corrupt practices and medical grade refrigerators to transport and store the mRNA vaccines.
Mi dispiace una delle tue affermazioni non è corretta: sono esattamente le case farmaceutiche a stabilire il prezzo dei loro prodotti su ciascun mercato, non i governi.
Pharma companies are for profit. This is their priority. It is the responsibility of governments to ensure that companies play fair and in times of national emergency, governments should force transparent behaviour.
Also, why did the Swiss govt. only authorse mRNA vaccines given that they are a new technology with unknown risks? What about traditionally developed C. 19 vaccines such as the Indian one? These consist of dead Covid 19 cells rather than being DNA engineered.
I always wondered how come India came up with their own vaccine but Switzerland spent millions in foreign experimental drugs.
My aunt's husband worked for a research team working on a drug for diabetics and told me the following:
1. they kept working even though the drug was already developed and they were having success with it. (I've heard similar things about other research - excess awarded money is wasted in the sense of: Even if one has already finished research, whether successful or not, one continues to research it).
2. the drug has not been brought to the public.
3. the team was dissolved because the leader retired.
Find the mistakes
Der Mann meiner Tante arbeitete für ein Forschungsteam, das an einem Medikament für Diabetiker arbeitete und hat mir folgendes erzählt:
1. Man arbeitete weiter, obschon das Medikament bereits entwickelt wurde und man damit Erfolge erziehlt. (Ähnliches habe ich schon über andere Forschungsarbeiten gehört - überschüssiges, zugesprochenes Geld wird verschwendet im Sinne von: Auch wenn man bereits fertig geforscht hat, ob erfolgreich oder nicht, forscht man eben weiter daran)
2. Man hat das Medikament nicht an die Öffentlichkeit gebracht.
3. Das Team wurde aufgelöst weil der Leiter in Pension ging.
Finde die Fehler
Thank you. Can you be more specific? What that at a public institution or a private company?
Danke. Können Sie das konkretisieren? Was das an einer öffentlichen Institution oder einem Privatunternehmen?
Nothing changed, i always hated it for its greed, unethical practices and exploitation and influencing of mass media
And i still do
Pfizer sponsors most giant media outlets
Imagine if everyone took the vaccine and it worked… then would pharma still be evil?
Pharma could help do more to get vaccines to developing countries but so can government.
Yes, imagine indeed, because imagination is logical and fact based!!!
According to the world bank, the US and CH "lead" the world in per capita healthcare spending. How are other developed nations (Germany, Australia, Israel, etc.) able to provide similar outcomes (average lifespan) with much lower spending?
It is a combination of factors. Both countries have insurance-based systems which are usually more expensive because of the additional burden of administration. Both countries tend to intervene earlier and more radically than other countries, often when the overall health benefits are marginal for the patient and poor from a health economics perspective, largely because doctors benefit from performing more interventions. Swiss healthcare is quite stunningly good, perhaps the best in the world, whereas the US has pockets of unrivalled excellence, which comes at a price, and some very wasteful practices.
Swiss media: get vaccinated or keep out of public spaces
Also Swiss media: pharma is evil
You can't have it both ways.
Sounds the same in the USA, except you have to say:
American main stream media/democrats
Thanks for your feedback. Are there stories or issues you think the Swiss media (or maybe media everywhere) should be covering?
jdp - not really, i just think it is ironic that a lot of people that complain about the money pharmaceutical companies make, are also the ones that want to force other people to get the vaccine. Which will also make the pharmaceutical company more money!
Keep those $$$ rolling in...No consideration whatsoever for people/countries who can't afford vaccines. Greed is alive and well.
If it weren't for medicines and their manufacturers, the population of the earth today may not be defusing dozens. Despite the greed of some to raise the price of medicines and the high price of some of them, they are contributing to our rescue, some wanted or rejected.
لولا الأدوية ومصنّعوها، فربما لن تزيد أعداد سكان الأرض اليوم عن العشرات. ورغم جشع البعض في رفع أسعار الأوية وغلاء البعض منها، فهم مساهمون في إنقاذنا شاء البعض أم رفض.
Healthcare around the world is mainly/mostly about two things:
1) Making enormous amounts of money from the ill humans.
2) Politics: In effect saying- Look how much money we (country) spend on healthcare; look we are providing you with good fixings/body repairs!
Our healthcare is mostly a failure. Because if we really want our population to be less ill, we would:
1) Provide Gyms in each locality, with physical activities for all age groups, all completely free.
2) Shorten the work day, allow balanced/sensible work-from-home, pay overtime to ALL people, thru laws - which are enforced; so that people have more time to rest. e.g. How many people suffer from sleep deprivation?
3) Engage children more into physical activities; cut down on home-work (e.g. in many countries, children often do school work until/beyond 10pm; horrible for their health and useless pressure which does nothing to make them smarter; but makes them more prone to life-long illnesses such as heart disease, blood pressure, addictions, obesity, diabetes, stress/depression).
4) Severely penalize unhealthy/processed foods, and encourage sale of natural/healthy products thru subsidies and lowering any taxes on them.
5) Reduce not just air pollution, but also reduce Noise Pollution (penalize sources of loud noises e.g. loud bikes/vehicles, loud garden equipment, frequent church bells ringing), Reduce Light pollution; may not be a big issue in Switzerland, but is a serious issue in many big cities/towns. Light and Noise pollution disrupt sleep and normal brain functions, leading to serious chronic illnesses.
SUMMARY:
Pharmaceutical companies are driven by greed, and do not like one-time/permanent fixes to illnesses; as then, they do not get rich fast. They love chronic illnesses mentioned in point 3, as then they can sell expensive just-keep-human-alive medicines, day after day after day. The ill human often must keep taking these medications for life. This means - LOT of wealth generation for pharmaceutical companies, at the expense of keeping the human ill (no clear fix).
Covid pandemic is not really a problem. We must focus on improving health; rather than focusing on providing expensive treatments, when people get sick. Of course, we need the latter as well, but main focus should be on points above (Prevention and Good Health).
If we truly care for our and our children's health, let us be honest about it all.
Great suggestions to improve health and keep us away from pills that fight symptoms, not causes of illness. However, to blame pharmaceutical companies for their „greed“, caused by human laziness and comfort need (and the wish of politicians to be re-elected by those) is just too easy. You are responsible for your health…and this means to take the right actions - no one is to blame if you get sick from leading your life irresponsibly towards your own health (gene deficiencies excluded, of course - in such cases you can thank pharmaceutical companies for a longer life).
BUSYBEE, I agree we must hold ourselves accountable for our own lifestyle decisions and health.
But good legislation and smart governance is needed, and here is why.
We at home (in London) eat mostly fresh food - as fresh/good quality as we can buy and afford; and our child is used to such food. But when at school, he has access to only low-quality, processed or nutrition-less food, in the school lunch hall. He pays for this food; it is not free.
Taking lunch from home is not an option, as it does not stay fresh; there is no place to store home-brought food in a refrigerator until their lunch time. Unlike in Switzerland, children do not come home for lunch; no one is at home or schools can often be far from home.
This school-cafe food (if one can call it food) is high in fat, salt or sugar and is often processed (e.g. bottled chocolate milk, processed meats, ambient temperature cakes/cookies/products, cold ham sandwiches, etc). Obesity levels are quite high in UK, with at least 30% of the population known to be obese (and getting worse).
Obesity has lead to many being chronically ill. However, if you go to any shopping street, you will find many cafes/restaurants selling unhealthy (and expensive) food; if you go to a supermarket, there is less fresh food, and a lot more processed, canned, bottled, plastic-packaged food - which is often high in various bad things.
Food is needed for survival; many people end up buying/consuming unhealthy foods, leading to a huge strain on healthcare; and considering we live in a rich country and pay huge taxes, it is hard to accept.
This serious problem can only be solved thru smart people-friendly laws, which force food producers/sellers to sell healthy foods. Even if we hold ourselves accountable for our health, which we do, we cannot improve the quality of food which is available to us. Living in a big city, we cannot grow our own food.
Only our leaders and smart governance can solve this issue. Consumption of unhealthy foods is a far greater pandemic than Covid.
-- Around 2.8 million people die each year as a result of being obese. It is hard to maintain good health when much of food available to us is high is salt, sugar and fat.
Very long work days, poor access to physical activities, particularly for children, are also issues which lead to poor health, but which we cannot solve as individuals.
Great comments Sensiblemike 👍👍💪
I always wondered why healthy eating, exercise, vitamin D, Zinc, Vitamin C, stress reduction and stop smoking was not mentioned even once since the pandemic started, despite that big majority of deaths and hospitalization are obese people and smokers, apart from old people, but aging is nothing we can do about, therefore it does not count for prevention of severe deseas. So yes, why healthy habits was never mentioned? Is this really about health?
Just go to the supermarket and when you realize that plenty of the products are junk food, then you will understand why the government does nothing. All the junk food companies will go broke and the economy will collapse. Same goes for the alcohol industry, tobacco and most of Pharma products. We need less than 30% what is out there to live healthy and happy.
I have an even lower opinion than prior to the pandemic. Reading through the randomized controlled trial studies for the vaccines was eye-opening. I believe that pharmaceutical companies are adept at formulating trials and presenting data in the light of their choosing. Here in the US, the relationship between them and the regulatory agencies is also quite problematic. Not sure what the solution is except to advise everyone to carefully do their own research before making decisions that will affect their health.
I've always had a low opinion of pharma companies especially in countries with a private health insurance system. How much are costs inflated as pharma companies know the insurance will pay? This is for the rich who can afford full premiums, not the poor who need the Jahresfranchise or not eat that month.
Lynx, you say - "...low opinion of pharma companies especially in countries with a private health insurance system...."; maybe implying that pharma companies somehow provide better value in countries with national healthcare systems.
You are mistaken. National healthcare systems are enormously expensive. As an example, in UK, for 2021, the NHS budget is (converted from £) CHF 217,911,841,617. Population of UK is 67 million.
The above gives us annual healthcare spending PER PERSON of CHF 3,252. This is the amount that is spent for EACH person - be it a one-day-old infant, a very fit athlete or teenager, or an old person.
Most people, like every member in my family, have rarely seen a doctor or have had the need to do so. But we do pay each year, and that is OK. The point is that, for the people who DO need treatments, the taxpayers who (will) pay for the £176 billion annual spend, will pay enormous amounts of money PER PERSON, much greater spend per (ill) person than the CHF 3,252.
Many pharmaceutical companies have LARGE and expensive contracts with various taxpayer-funded healthcare organizations, guaranteeing them huge revenues. You and I just do not see the bills, like one would in a privately funded system. And that is really the only difference between the two systems.
I do favor national healthcare systems; just saying that pharma companies still get what they want -- lots of money; you are just paying for it thru your taxes, and do get billed directly.
Sensiblemike is right - pharmaceutical companies milk both private and public insurance. Insurance is designed so that the people who actually need treatment (the patients) don't have any say in the price.
But for that reason, I don't favor national systems. In a private system, I can at least choose my insurance company. In the US, new types of insurance companies are popping up where they will actually secure good deals for patients. Once you have single payer, you're stuck with government and with regulatory capture.
Incentives like ‘ a visit free 6mths/1 year’ having not have had to visit a Dr.
Or better sign up to a gym for 1 year and with an improved report by the end of the year…
Premium incentives for Premium reduction…
There will always, for the foreseeable future the need for the Pharmaceutical Ind. For most people fortunate or not but including an avenue that encourages taking ones health more into one hands is more of a ‘win win’ possibility…
I don't know how the editorial decides on these topics for discussion. The topic itself is far too complex and far too abstract for any layperson (including myself) to discuss meaningfully.
I attempt to answer your topic.
Pharma are the hidden heroes and evils in this pandemic. They are not in the limelight in the news. They silently made the vaccines and also they secretly profited from billions and even trillions of chf/dollars from the global vaccination campaigns.
Are they heroes or devils? We cannot definitively say this because we do not have direct contact with Pharma. We don't even have indirect news about them. This is worrisome because they remain hidden and they are an enigma.
Thank you for your perspective. I take your point that it is a complex topic but at the same time something that affects us all in some way. I think your point that the companies seem hidden or silent is an interesting one. I think many of us feel we don't really understand what these companies do and how they make decisions.
Do you have thoughts on how to change this?
Drug companies are actually quite transparent. Their shareholders demand it and governments expect it. By definition publishing a patent is putting what would otherwise be secret in the public domain. The trouble is that the science can be quite baffling if you are not scientifically trained. However, there is much that could be done to improve how drug companies operate. Direct-to-consumer advertising should be more strictly controlled, results of trials that have not achieved an expected outcome should still be published and the extent to which healthcare professionals receive funding from healthcare suppliers should be made more widely available.
Dear Nico, Thanks for contributing to the discussion. It does seem that transparency has been improving in the industry but one area where this is lacking is around prices. Do you think that companies should have to reveal actual prices paid for their medicine? Or what about amount of government funding into R&D?
Pricing is difficult. Often it is the payers that want to keep secret the prices, especially if they on-sell. Additionally drug companies initially launch their drugs in their home market, or one where they have particular influence, looking for as high a price as they believe the market will bear for what, on the face of it, should be the most promising treatment available and is cost effective in terms of health economics. This sets a marker price against which other authorities in other countries will haggle down. Some countries haggle hard and those countries tend to be the last to see the drug launched.
Government or academic funding is usually in primary research, something which even the most innovative drug companies spend only 15% of their turnover on (around a third of what is spent marketing drugs in primary care!). The risks come in developing a compound and bringing it to market, which happens for only a very small number of promising compounds that leave the labs. The reason that we see new medicines is because drug companies have inordinately deep pockets and can take huge risks.
Your two questions are linked . pricing of novel new and innovative pharmaceuticals is high for 2 reasons. The drug has to cover part of not only its own development costs but also the numerous other candidates that were stopped for a myriad of different reasons. Plus partly cross fund future development of other new drugs.
There are collaborations between a lot of the top teaching and research clinics and the pharma industry but it is rare that govt funds the industry, covid was an exception. The cost of developing a new drug gets higher every year and this is because governments rightly require more and moreninformation about how the drug was developed trialled and manufactured plus they require companies to know about everything in the drug. The same cannot be said of food and over the counter non prescription medications.
I am staggered that there is a lot of anger directed at "the pharma industry" Lets be clear here it is not an amorphous thing. Mostly these are publicly traded and highly accountable companies. The CEOs are known as are other senior executives. The industry pushed hard to achieve a covid vaccine in record time, in collaboration with governments. Switzerland like a number of rich nations chose the most expensive options the mRNA vaccine. The more conventional vaccines from J&J / AZ were less than half the price. So if you want to point a finger for sure Switzerland chose the expensive option, and that was a Govt decision. I could continue but do not wish to bore everyone.
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