Should raw milk sales be banned or should consumers decide?
Swiss food regulations do not allow raw milk to be advertised or sold for direct consumption because it can expose people to germs such as Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, Brucella, and Salmonella.
However, the Alpine nation still has about 400 raw milk vending machines operated by farms scattered across the country.
Swiss dairy farmers comply with the regulations by sticking a label on the vending machines that warns buyers that they must heat the milk.
More
Raw milk: regulatory loophole gives Swiss the freedom to skip pasteurisation
This loophole allows consumers to buy unpasteurised milk even though they run the risk of food poisoning.
What are your thoughts on the sale of raw milk? How should it be regulated?
I am surprised that raw milk is being questioned. If anything, it is the large-scale organised distribution (GDO) that has an interest in decreasing raw sales, not the citizen, nor the Federal Office of Food Safety (USAV).
On my farm I have been selling fresh loose milk for 15 years (to reduce the impact we require the consumer to bring his own container). We undergo checks and analyses all the time and the milk is not only highly valued, but also generates sufficient income. Truly misleading to pass off as risky a foodstuff that when fresh has a much higher nutritional value than standardised milk! That the journalist was unable or unwilling to visit a farm? Or does he question the entire Swiss food safety chain?
Mi sorprende che il latte crudo sia messo in discussione. Semmai è la grande distribuzione organizzata (GDO) che ha interesse a diminuire la vendita dirtetta e non il cittadino, né l'Ufficio federale della sicurezza alimentare (USAV).
Nella mia azienda agricola vendo da 15 anni latte fresco sciolto (per ridurre l'impatto richiediamo che il consumatore porti il suo contenitore). Subiamo controlli e eseguiamo analisi continuamente e il latte, oltre che essere apprezzazissimo, permette di ottenere un ricavo sufficiente. Davvero fuorviante spacciare per rischioso un alimento che da fresco ha un valore nutritivo nettamente superiore al latte standardizzato! Che il giornalista non abbia potuto o voluto visitare una fattoria? Oppure mette in dubbio tutta la filiera della sicurezza alimentare svizzera?
Where do I actually live? I always thought: in Switzerland. Now I read about an Indian who quotes American milk policy, American health authorities and American milk drinkers. But he visits a Swiss farm and realises that the milk there smells like milk... Swiss milk, of course... Even though Swiss dairy cows don't have horns! I've simply had enough of America, and not just since Trump. We don't have to model ourselves on those in America and certainly not on their hygiene, which makes us even more susceptible to disease because we are no longer immune. And without bacteria there is no cheese, and certainly no Swiss cheese! With large holes in it that have been created by bacteria and produce a tasty Emmental!
Wo lebe ich eigentlich? Ich dachte immer: in der Schweiz. Jetzt lese ich von einem Inder, der amerikanische Milchpolitik und amerikanische Gesundheitsbehörden sowie amerikanische Milchtrinker zitiert. Aber er besucht einen Schweizer Bauernhof und stellt fest, dass dort die Milch nach Milch riecht… Nach Schweizer Milch natürlich… Auch wenn die Schweizer Milchkühe keine Hörner haben! Ich habe einfach genug von Amerika, nicht erst seit Trump. Wir müssen uns hier nicht nach denen in Amerika richten und schon gar nicht deren Hygiene, die dazu führt, dass wir erst recht kranheitsanfällig werden, weil wir nicht mehr immun sind. Und ohne Bakterien gibt es gar keinen Käse, und erst recht gar keinen Schweizer Käse! Mit grossen Löchern drin, die von Bakterien erzeugt worden sind und einen schmackhaften Emmentaler erzeugen!
Bebbi, your image of milk and its supply chain (Swiss milk chain) should not be limited to Emmentaler and milk. We have been producing all milk products for centuries, and safely. Fortunately, there are still plenty of them (there are thousands of fresh milk distributors, not 400 as the article reports). Best regards from the dairy.
Bebbi, la tua immagine del latte e della sua filiera (filiera del latte svizzero) non deve limitarsi all'emmentaler e al latte. Produciamo da secoli tutti i prodotti derivati dal latte e in modo sicuro. Per fortuna ci sono sempre moltissime realtà (i distributori di latte fresco sono migliaia e non 400 come riporta l'articolo). Cari saluti dal caseificio.
We have been consuming raw milk from a vending machine in Zurich-Stettbach for years. The raw milk comes from an organic farm in the city of Zurich. The farm does not buy any external animal feed. The milk is very fine and obviously not harmful to health in any way - in fact, it is obviously beneficial to health, as our own experience shows! What is damaging to health (I mean in psychological terms) is probably over-regulation, as is the case in the EU, for example.
Wir konsumieren seit Jahren Rohmilch aus einem Automaten in Zürich-Stettbach. Die Rohmilch stammt von einem Bio-Landwirtschaftsbetrieb in der Stadt Zürich. Der Betrieb kauft keine fremden Futtermittel ein. Die Milch ist sehr fein und offensichtlich in keiner Weise gesundheitsschädigend - offensichtlich eher gsundheitsfördernd, wie unsere eigene Erfahrung zeigt! Gesundheitsschädigend (ich meine in psychischer Hinsicht) ist wohl eher eine Ueberregulierung, wie sie z.B. auch in der EU herrscht.
How can I not subscribe to what you write! Regulation is erasing centuries of culture. We are controlled in an almost police-like manner on Swiss farms. Yet these are bureaucratic, administrative controls and not with the aim of improving or stopping abuse (which unfortunately there is). As another user writes, you don't just ruin psychological health, but by flattening, standardising, making the product sterile, you also diminish the self-defence potential of the organism, also diminishing physical health. Thank you and best regards from the farm.
Come non sottoscrivere quanto scrivi! La regolamentazione sta cancellando secoli di cultura. Siamo controllati in modo quasi poliziesco nelle fattorie svizzere. Eppure si tratta di controlli burocratici, amministrativi e non con l'obiettivo di far migliorare o bloccare gli abusi (che purtroppo ci sono). Come scrive un altro utente, in effetti non si rovina solo la salute psicologica, ma appiattendo, standardizzando, rendendo sterile il prodotto, si diminuisce anche il potenziale di autodifesa dell'organismo, diminuendo anche la salute fisica. Grazie e cari saluti dalla fattoria.
Consumers are responsible and capable of judgement.
Die Konsumentinnen und Konsumenten sind mündig sowie urteilsfähig.
The state must not interfere in the citizen's menu plan. That's it, full stop.
Der Staat hat nicht in des Bürger's Menuplan einzugreifen. Schluss und Punkt.
I believe that it is above all the quality of the milk and its origin from animals that consume fodder and not feed that is important. It seems that milk produced during alpine pasture from animals that only consume fodder has an absolutely ideal ratio of omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids (and that consequently also the consumption of alpine cheese has no harmful consequences for health, provided of course that it is consumed with common sense and moderation). That said, if one is lucky enough to have access to good quality raw milk or 'hay' milk. I personally see no reason to pasteurise it at home. Perhaps it is not an ideal food for those who want to keep their weight under control or for those who suffer from type II diabetes and do not engage in daily exercise or sports activities. But moderate consumption by young, healthy and active people I believe is recommendable as a source of good protein, as well as enjoyable.
Credo che sia importante soprattutto la qualità del latte e la sua provenienza da animali che consumano foraggio e non mangimi. Pare che il latte prodotto durante l'alpeggio da bestie che consumano solo foraggio abbia un rapporto tra acidi grassi omega 3 e omega 6 assolutamente ideale ( e che di conseguenza anche il consumo di formaggio d'alpeggio non abbia conseguenze dannose per la salute, purché ovviamente sia consumato con buon senso e misura). Ciò detto se si ha la fortuna di avere accesso ad un latte crudo di buona qualità o latte "da fieno" , personalmente non vedo ragione per pastorizzarlo in casa. Forse non è un alimento ideale per chi vuole tenere il peso sotto controllo o per chi soffre di un diabete di tipo II e non pratica movimento quotidiano o attività sportiva. Ma un consumo moderato da parte di persone giovani, sane e attive credo sia raccomandabile come fonte di proteine buone, oltre che piacevole.
Correct. I would add that fresh milk is also good for older people because it helps fight osteoporosis, which is typical of older people. We only recommend a very light pasteurisation for the first few days when switching from standardised to fresh milk, to allow the creation of the intestinal flora suitable for consuming fresh milk without any effect. Obviously for those who are intolerant, we recommend a little caution. We have customers who thought they were intolerant and with a gradual transition from zero consumption to moderate consumption have resumed drinking milk.
Corretto. Aggiungerei che il latte fresco è buono anche per le persone meno giovani, perché aiuta a combattere l'osteoporosi, tipica delle persone più in là con gli anni. Noi consigliamo una leggerissima pastorizzazione solo per i primi giorni di passaggio dal latte standardizzato a quello fresco, per permettere la creazione della flora intestinale adatta a consumare senza nessun effetto il latte fresco. Evidentemente per chi è intollerante consigliamo un poco di attenzione. Abbiamo clienti che si credevano intolleranti e con un passaggio graduale da zero consumo a consumo moderato hanno ripreso a bere il latte.
I am of the mind that I get weary of over regulation of things where the party is aware of what they are consuming, that what they are buying is not being deceptively labeled, and that the potential risks that could happen, which might be quite serious and in some of these cases resulting in the death of the person consuming it, is a illness that is not contagious to other like pathogens. There should absolutely be very much consequences if someone were selling raw milk without identifying it as such or in a situation where a person might reasonably expect it to be pasteurized milk. I feel like cracking down on people who willingly want to consume raw milk is a bit paternalistic when we live in a world that we are filling with plastic to levels that it is becoming the main geological identifier of a geological epoch, or the fact that large scale invasive technologies are kind of being just put out there without really any large scale consent or consensus in ways that very much will have extremely worrying effects on people over the next years, be it facial recognition technologies, drones, and even how we can be so susceptible to algorithmic suggestion that people can lose their ability to know that their perception of the world at large is truly theirs and not one that has become fabricated through information bubbles and reinforced echo chambers. Those are the things I worry about, not really who is drinking milk without raising it to the proper temperature before consuming it.
Let the people decide. Who knows, maybe treating milk before it is consumed leads to more diseases, as our immune systems do not learn to fight germs as effectively.
Even in Switzerland, we used to consume raw milk bought directly from farms.
I remember as a child that we used to fetch with a bucket with a (aluminium) lid, and the next day we would collect the fat (cream) that had come to the surface.
Each time it was a party.
Once upon a time, children and young people in general did not suffer from allergies and intolerances as we do nowadays, I wonder if there could be a connection between today's super-controlled, sterilised, etc. foods and those we consumed several years ago.
Anche in Svizzera, una volta si consumava latte crudo acquistato direttamente il prodotto da fattorie.
Mi ricordo da bambino che andavamo a prendere con un secchiello con il coperchio (di alluminio), e all'indomani raccoglievamo la materia grassa (panna) che era venuta a galla.
Ogni volta era una festa.
Una volta i bambini/e e i giovani in generale, non soffrivano di allergie e di intolleranze come al giorno d'oggi, mi chiedo se relamente ci potrebbe essere un nesso fra gli alimenti supercontrollati, sterilizzati, ecc del giorno d'oggi, a quelli che consumavamo vari nni fa.
It still works like that. On village farms we sell milk in glass bottles or buckets, reducing, indeed eliminating plastic and paper. The customer comes to the farm with his own container, buys as much as he wants at a lower cost than large retailers and also sees the process from milking to the table. In the industrial milk chain, complete traceability is not possible, although it is extolled.
For the urban consumer it is inconvenient to make a possibly long journey to the farm, but it is certainly possible.
Funziona ancora così. Nelle fattoria di paese vendiamo il latte in bottiglia di vetro o in secchiello, diminuendo, anzi, eliminando plastica e carta. Il cliente viene in fattoria con il proprio contenitore, acquista a costo minore di quello della grande distribuzione quanto desidera e inoltre vede il processo dalla mungitura alla tavola. Nella filiera del latte industriale non è possibile la tracciabilità completa, sebbene sia decantata.
Per il consumatore dell'area urbana è scomodo fare un tragitto magari lungo per raggiungere la fattoria, ma è senz'altro possibile.
It should never be banned. Milk is by nature a product supposed to be consumed raw (as is mothermilk). The warning label is enough. Let people have a choice!
I feel priviledged to live in a cow-farming mountain community, where access to raw milk is easy.
Personally, I suspect that today's widespread allergies and intolerances to certain dairy products comes from over-processing a perfectly fine natural (raw) product.
Perhaps more than causing allergies and intolerances, the consumption of standardised, debacterialised, heated milk contributes to lowered immune system responses.
Clean fresh/raw milk (on the farm we milk it, filter it and cool it to 4 degrees immediately after milking) is healthy and alive. Congratulations on your choice to buy milk from the farm.
Forse più che causa di allergie e intolleranze, il consumo di latte standardizzato, debatterizzato, riscaldato contribuisce ad abbassare le risposte del sistema immunitario.
Il latte fresco / crudo pulito (in fattoria lo mungiamo, filtriamo e raffreddiamo a 4 gradi subito dopo la mungitura) è sano e vivo. Complimenti per la tua scelta di acquistare il latte dalla fattoria.
Fresh raw milk is the healthiest milk you can drink. Our family (in New Zealand) has been drinking raw milk for years, it tastes better too!
When I was growing up in Winterthur (1939 to about 1950) the milkman used to come round our house every morning at about 5.30am and bring us fresh raw milk and fine fresh butter. I am still living a healthy and fresh existence and intend to live to be at least 200 years old!
Frische rohe Milch ist die gesuendeste Milch die man trinken kann. Unsere Familie ( in Neuseeland) trinkt schon seit Jahren rohe Milch, schmeckt auch besser!
In meiner Jugendzeit in Winterthur (1939 bis etwa 1950) kam der Milchmann jeden morgen ungefaehr um 05 30 Uhr bei unserem Haus vorbei und brachte uns frische rohe Milch, sowie feine frische Butter. Ich lebe immer noch ein gesundes und frisches Dasein und habe im Sinn mindestens 200 Jahre alt zu werden!
Another typical Swiss pathology! But what are the dangers of drinking raw milk? Raw milk was a staple food for the Swiss until a century ago. And not only for the Swiss, but for all mountain and lowland peoples.
又一个典型的瑞士病态！但是，饮用生牛奶有什么危险呢？生牛奶直到一个世纪前还是瑞士人的主食。而且，不仅是瑞士人，所有山区和低地民族都是如此。
Pasteurised homogenised milk is poison. Raw milk from healthy pasture grazing cows raised without antibiotics is health food!!
If you are brainwashed to be risk adverse by govt propaganda don't buy raw milk but why stop those who want to be healthy and exercise their freedom of choice?
Raw milk _ Each human is born with ..choices..
Another of the typically Swiss pathologies! But what danger is there in consuming raw milk, the staple food of the Swiss until a century ago? And not only of the Swiss, but of all mountain and lowland peoples.
Un altra delle paturnie tipicamente elvetiche! Ma che pericolo ci sarà mai nel consumo di latte crudo, alimento basilare degli Svizzeri fino a un secolo fa? E non solo degli svizzeri, ma di tutti i popoli di montagna , ma anche di pianura.
I bought milk from a vending machine and had no idea that I am supposed to heat it. I strongly suspect most people also don't know that. Most of us are not farmers. Even if you are a farmer, you don't know what is going on inside someone else's farm. If you are selling a product to the public, it is on YOU to ensure it is safe for a very simple reason: the public cannot come into your farm, factory or whatever to see what is going on, and even if they could do that, they would not know what to look for, because we are not all doctors, engineers, etc. Therefore, it is completely silly to say that people can evaluate the risks for themselves. People literally have zero information to go on, and even if they had all the data, they would not know what to do with it. Is 5 bactria per liter too much? Less than 0.01% of people know what to do with data like that. This is exactly the type of situation where government regulation is a benefit to both the producer (by giving potential customers an actual good reason reason to be confident in the product, despite not being an expert in testing of that product) and consumer (who is protected against unsafe products).
Was the instruction label to heat the milk not visible enough? Do you think the vending machine should also have a warning mentioning the risks of drinking the raw milk?
'Product safe'! It is the new obsession of our times, as if everyone out there is plotting to poison us with everything: drinks, fruit and vegetables, sweets, bread and whatever else. And will chocolate be safe, or will it too be manipulated? If we go on at this rate, we will delight psychologists and psychiatrists who will have to convince us to feed ourselves anyway, perhaps with the help of (safe?) tranquillisers.
"Prodotto sicuro" ! È la nuova ossessione dei tempi nostri, come se là fuori tramassero tutti quanti di avvelenarci con ogni cosa: bevande, frutta e verdura, dolci, pane e quant'altro. E il cioccolato sarà sicuro, oppure manipolato pure lui? Andando avanti di questo passo, faremo la gioia di psicologi e psichiatri che dovranno convincerci ad alimentarci comunque magari con l'ausilio di tranquillanti (sicuri?)
as for tobacco? maybe with skull and crossed shinbones? no comment...
come per il tabacco? magari con teschio e tibie incrociate ? no comment...
Actually, it isn't.
Was the machine not marked with the required label, or did you just ignore it?
I would skip raw milk for myself (it is uncommon where I live) but if the machine is labeled and compliant with the law then it is on you.
360 degree state approval? Well, onward and upward, we will all soon be under protection in the face of a free or liberal country.
Approvazione statale a 360 gradi? Benone, avanti così che saremo ben presto tutti quanti sotto tutela alla faccia del paese libero o liberale.
What a question. I've been drinking raw cow milk since I was two (57years). Raw and not heated. For centuries humans did it and survived and in those days the hygiene wasn't on the level of today. In Switzerland I can buy my raw milk directly from the farm and help so the local economy.
Or urge for more and more hygiene will kill us more likely than the dirt we eat.
In Ireland there's a big red warning on cheese produced from raw milk but none on processed food with long lists of additives, preservatives, sugars or artificial sweeteners, flavor enhancers etc.
How far have we come that natural is dangerous and artificial is healthy.
Yes, and for centuries, life was much harsher than it is now. For most of human existence, dying young from some miserable disease was very normal. Whereas, nowadays, dying of old age is a fairly common privilege. If we had kept doing things the same way, we definitely would not be enjoying such radical improvements in health.
In particular, Louis Pasteur has no doubt save millions if not billions of lives.
Although you are around to tell us about you milk drinking habits, we have to consider that who died of food poisoning have no chance to tell us their cautionary antecdotes.
Ridiculous objection: but then how far do we want to go? All of us living to be centenarians with a thousand precautions and expensive remedies?
We also know that nowadays we do not so much increase real life, but rather prolong long old age, perhaps as demented people and in increasingly crowded old people's homes. Will these also be 'safe'? One will always have to die.
Ridicola obiezione: ma poi fin dove vogliamo arrivare ? Tutti quanti campare centenari con mille precauzioni e costosi rimedi?
Si sa pure che oggi non si aumenta tanto la vera vita, ma si prolunga piuttosto la lunga vecchiaia, magari da dementi e in case per anziani sempre più affollate. Saranno poi "sicure" anche queste? Morire si dovrà pur sempre.
Oho, the worries good old Switzerland has. The rest of the world would be happy to worry about fresh or not so fresh milk.
Well done!
Zürcher Oberland has many farmers with fresh foods produce and one of which; is fresh cows' milk. The direct tank in farmlands where fresh milk untreated is absolutely delicious and creamy but for consumption of milk by minors incl. Infants & Children (or keeping fresh milk for longer periods of time) it needs to be pasteurised UHT
Why would anybody give their children UHT milk? This milk is dead. Then you can as well give them water to drink.
Infants and children can drink raw milk as good as adults. I did it sonce I was two. Or Swiss milk is so damn hygienic, even raw milk keeps for more than a week in the fridge.
necessary to pasteurise it to UHT? Ridiculous
necessario pastorizzarlo a UHT? Ridicolo
ridiculous is the right word!
ridicolo è la giusta parola!
Giving an infant raw cow's milk to drink can quickly land you in court and then in prison. And the possible remorse has not yet been factored in.
Raw cow's milk from a healthy herd on a hygienically sound farm is certainly a positive food, but you should be aware that life-threatening complications can quickly arise if you don't pay attention to any symptoms.
Einem Säugling rohe Kuhmilch zu trinken zu geben kann Sie ganz schnell vor den Kadi und dann ins Gefängnis bringen. Und die allfälligen Gewissensbisse sind noch nicht eingepreist.
Rohe Kuhmilch aus einem gesunden Bestand von einem hygienisch einwandfreien Hof ist sicher ein positives Lebensmittel, allerdings sollte man sich schon bewusst sein, dass es schnell zu lebensbedrohlichen Komplikationen kommen kann, wenn man nicht auf allfällige Symptome achtet.
If the public is treated as though they are stupid, by implementing regulation upon regulation on everything, we risk dumbing down society AND restricting freedoms. And then of course, there has to be a budget to maintain and enforce all these laws etc.
Besides, where are the factual numbers showing high cases of poisoning etc. My family and I drank raw milk for a few years and never had an issue. The milk, by the way was absolutely amazing!
Good for you! If the raw milk works for you, then great!
It does not mean it works for everyone and if there are some fatal allergy reaction, this will be shut down. Unfortunate but almost always true outcome.
Have a great day!
fatal ?? perhaps only for people already allergic to dairy products, which are perhaps 0.01 of the population: these already know and avoid them!
fatali ?? magari solo per soggetti già allergici contro i latticini, che sono forse lo 0.01 della popolazione: questi già lo sanno e li evitano!
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