What work (if any) do you think is acceptable for children to do?
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From the article Is child labour really that bad?
Exploitation and forced labor are not good, but I don't think child labor is bad.
The experience is only useful later. I think it is very dangerous to think only in terms of the values of modernized countries. Just because we don't buy things made by child labor doesn't mean that poverty will disappear. It is good if the work leads to a career, whether it is farming or making things. Of course it would be even better if we can create a place and time for learning.
搾取や強制労働はよくありませんが、児童労働が悪いとは思いません。
経験は後に役に立つことばかりです。近代化した国の価値観だけで物事を考えることはとても危険だと思います。児童労働のものを買わないというだけでは貧困は無くなりません。農業でも物作りでもキャリアにつながる仕事であれば良いのではないでしょうか。もちろん学びの場や時間を作れれば尚良いと思います。
Parenting.
In Japan, more and more adults are unable to raise children. In addition, the birthrate is declining.
This is because they spend all their time studying as children and do not play with their siblings or with other children anymore.
Raising children cannot be done by children alone, but it can be done with the support of adults.
子育て。
日本では、子供を育てられない大人が増えている。また、少子化が進んでいる。
それは、子供の時に勉強ばかりして、兄弟と遊んだり、他の子供と遊んだりしなくなっているから。
子育ては、子供だけでは無理だけど、大人のサポートがあればできる。
In the case of a child, the word "work" seems a bit heavy to me. I am in favor of children from an early age having responsibility for what they do, and nothing better than their parents to carry out this task. Under no circumstances should it be something that implies some kind of suffering, loss of school days (I am talking about education), but it is important that they learn to exercise a directed function in order to live according to stricter rules in a not too distant future.
No caso de uma criança a palavra "trabalho" me parece um tanto pesada. Sou a favor da criança desde cedo ter responsabilidade sobre aquilo que faz e nada melhor que os pais para exercerem tal tarefa. Em hipótese alguma deve ser algo que implique algum tipo de sofrimento, perda de dias de escola (falo em educação) porém é importante que elas aprendam a exercer uma função dirigida para num futuro não muito distante viver de acordo com regras mais rígidas.
It's always a bit funny when the Swiss talk about child labor.
In very poor countries, many people live on the edge of life and death. I would support child labor if putting children to work would improve this miserable situation. Poverty is the root cause, child labor is only the result. Until poverty is eliminated, child labor will not disappear.
In rich countries, all people are guaranteed a basic livelihood. I would be against child labor. The exception, of course, would be children doing odd jobs at home to earn pocket money.
总觉得瑞士人谈童工问题有点滑稽。
在非常贫穷的国家，很多人生活在生死边缘。如果让孩子工作能改善这种悲惨状况，我会支持使用童工。贫穷是根源，童工现象只是结果。贫穷不消除，童工就不会消失。
在富裕国家，所有人的基本生活都有保障。我会反对使用童工。当然，孩子在家干点零活，赚零花钱例外。
Any work is good for kids as far it is part of their education. At 5, I was responsible to put the garbage bin at the street each day before going to school. At 10, I was responsible for the full clean of my room twice a week and to let my bed impeccable before going to school. If I do not make my job, my parents will force me to see the Russian Cartoons at the TV, and that was a real torture. At 15, I need to make all my duties (which increased exponentially) if I want to go partying with my girlfriend. There were no time for PC Games, but an obligatory 2 hours of good book lectures.
И чем же Вам так не нравились Российские мультфильмы?
Вероятно, качеством.
I think if children help out in a parental business for a short time that is okay, but if children have to work full time in the industries under sometimes disgusting circumstances and feed the families it is at the expense of their health, education and childhood in general and should not be.
Ich denke wenn Kinder mal in einem elterlichen Betrieb für eine kurze Zeit aushelfen ist das okay, aber wenn Kinder in den Industrien vollzeitig unter teils widerlichen Umständen arbeiten müssen und die Familien ernähren geht das auf Kosten deren Gesundheit, Ausbildung und Kindheit generell und sollte nicht sein.
Those where they can integrate as part of the family and get the feeling that they are worth something. Those jobs where they learn something for life and what helps them to awaken other interests to maybe choose the future profession or direction. Doing nothing and thinking they have to get everything even if they are just glued to the iPad or game console all day is definitely wrong. I see the earlier generations much more settled and prepared for the future than the current generation!
Jene wo sie sich als teil der Familie integrieren können und das Gefühl erhalten, das sie auch was wert sind. Jene Arbeiten wo sie was für das Leben lernen und was Ihnen hilft auch andere Interessen zu wecken um vielleicht den zukünftigen Beruf oder die Richtung auswählen können. Nichts zu tun und zu meinen sie müssten alles bekommen auch wenn sie nur den ganzen Tag am iPad oder an der Spielekonsole hängen ist bestimmt falsch. Ich sehe die früheren Generationen viel gefestigter und gewappnet für die Zukunft als die jetzige Generation!
I think it is good.
Me and my sisters have been working on the family farm since we were children. We learned a lot and it guaranteed we have a career as adults.
We also learned a lot more in school. I was interested in agriculture like plants and growing, while my two sisters were more interested in the mechanical part like with tractors and water systems.
With our work experience as children we have a good career ahead of ourselves. Other young people in the city will never have this opportunity.
It is a morally and ethically bankrupt argument, that favours multinationals. It is ultimately what is wrong with this world. How about uplifting these communities and have less middlemen and pay more to the farmers so that they can employ proper Labour at a fair wage. The child is eternally denied a better shot a life under the present status quo. We all aspire to have a better life even in a third world country.
Letting children work is a good thing, providing it does not harm their health and does not mean slavery. When my generation wanted some pocket money, most of us had to work for it. At age five, I had lived for a while with a farmers family. For their kids it was normal to help and so it was for me. Plucking cherries, picking up potatoes or raking the cut grass once dried. Later on, we found out that Migros paid 50 cents per kilo of newspaper rolls that was used for wrapping. It took a lot of time to collect the papers in the neighborhood, unfolding, laying sheet on sheet and making the rolls fastened with a string. However, we were mighty proud of our achievement. In our house, a decorator had his workshop. Helping with small things and errands. He taught me how to hammer in a nail or stitching on cloth and occasionally paid for a croissant or an ice cream.
They smash their toys themselves, repair them under their supervision, and involve them in this work
ان يقوموا بتحطيم العابهم بانفسهم , واعادة اصلاحها باشرافهم , واشراكهم بهذا العمل
Welcome to your participation, what is meant in this context is paid work. Is there paid work that children can do?
أهلا بمشاركتك، المقصود في هذا السياق هو العمل مدفوع الأجر. هل هناك عمل مدفوع الأجر يمكن للأطفال ممارسته؟
No — only involving them in a job to bring their interest in what we work, but pay is a thankful thank you for helping them, not pay. The child's sense that he works as an insult to childhood.
لا - فقط إشراكهم في عمل لجلب اهتمامهم فيما نعمل، أما الأجر فاكرامية كشكر على مساعدتهم وليست أجرا . إحساس الطفل أنه يعمل باجر إهانة للطفولة.
Yes! Children who desired to work used to do so in America. Now, they're not allowed to. They used to harvest crops, which some loved doing (I did not, and I chose instead to concentrate on sports outside of my studies). If the conditions are safe and the kids want to, LET THEM.
Any and all work deemed acceptable by their parents. School is also work except they do not get paid for it. They did not ask for it, they did not pay for it, but it is there and it is mostly done to keep the teachers with jobs so they are not unemployed.
This comes from a mother of 3 and I would have gladly sent them to lean to do a proper job instead of half the time wasted in school. If between the ages of 10 and 23 children would work half the time and spend half of the time on proper useful schooling like learning a job, learning some languages and learning useful skills like cooking and accounting then these generations would not be full of school debt and would have real skills.
Today we're raising children who until their 30s spend time on PhDs in schools loaning money for school they can never pay back. We're making them slaves to debt.
To be a mother is also a huge work and they don't get paid for it!
Worse than those 35 years old PhD students are the 35 year old gamers in their family home. Work is a perfect tool to educate children.
While we in Western societies have learned that children must be protected, we cannot ignore the fact that the role of children in our own history was similar and as much a part of our economic progress.
In difficult times, small family farms, businesses, even industry could not have survived without the participation of all members, including children.
What we have to ensure today is that working to support family does not become exploitation/slavery and that schooling must always be a part of any mix.
This is indeed not such a simple question. We cannot simply prohibit child labour even in locations where the state does not offer free schooling until age 18. Before condemning all child labour therefore we have to look at local conditions.
Generally speaking I would say that child labour in family businesses; be it agricultural or otherwise, should be acceptable. If schooling is available it would be preferable for children to attend schools.
So who will pay for that schooling if the parents do not have the money for it?
My sister cannot afford to send her children to school as they do not make enough money to pay for all the school activities or home supervisors and still work at the same time. Will you pay for her to send the children to school?
Everyone loves to complain but nobody is willing to pay to help with those things. My sister's choice was to move to a rural area in Italy where she and her husband afforded a farm and a home. The children just do online classes in the evening and work at the farm during the day.
Anything they have the know-how and strength to do. There should be a life skills course at school. Many children leave school with zero idea of cope with life after they leave. When I was at home, I did housework in return for pocket money. When I got my own place, I already knew how to manage my money, cook, bake, do my laundry, ironing, decorating, gardening, other housework and some more heavy duty DIY. This means I have rarely had to rely on anyone else to do things, though some of my girlfriends (now ex) tended to rely too heavily on me, the slave.
Schools do not have enough places to accept all children. There's the first problem. The child labor researcher argues child labor is ok, because most of these children will end of working cocoa anyway. Pssst, Mr Researcher, it's a self fulfilling prophecy, if there are no schools.
As for the topic, Is child labor really that bad? Yes, it is. I've done it. Don't misunderstand me, working as a choice (not a necessity) can be valuable in many ways. What most fail to understand is, the pay is non-existent. These kids are not making money for themselves. They are making money for their parents. Hence, a larger problem already exists. And child labor is not the solution to the problem.
Nor is paying $400 per ton, extra. How about some schools? How about a food and health program? The basic needs are not being met. Start there.
Thanks for your comment. Can you share what work you did as a child? Was it voluntary or were you compelled?
Short answer: Restaurant work, mainly kitchen. Compulsory. Not paid. Sharp knives, hot ovens and stoves, hot grease, grills. Boiling water was not a concern, because water cools off when it hits you, and it doesn't leave a mark. Dishwashers bring dishes to 82C. We handled them straight from the machine. It was a rite of passage. All of it was.
Longer answer: My father owned a bar/restaurant. I worked there in all aspects of the business, increasing responsibilities as my age progressed. Milk crates enable an 8 year old to reach the dishwasher. I poured beer and booze by age 9. I insisted on learning the cash register by age 10, perched on a bar stool. At age 12, I began running the kitchen lunch shift during Summer break. I should note, I always attended school, played after school sports, and participated in any school event or activity. I earned excellent grades. However, free time meant time at the restaurant. That's how it was, and it was not an option. Knives, ovens, grill, fire, I experienced them all and have scars to prove it. By 16, with a driver's license, I was running the place, mainly working the kitchen. Bartending was my favorite job, because I couldn't burn anything, including myself. There was nothing legal about bartending below the age of 21, but only the liquor inspector's presence caused concern. I served anyone and everyone that walked through the door. We made dough every day, for fresh bread and pizzas. We peeled our shrimp, cut our own french fries, made our own pasta sauces, meatballs, sausage, soups. We could seat 75 people, and we served 120 on a busy night. Sleeping after a busy Friday night, the result is, dreams of cooking until 4am. These dreams lasted for years, long after my cooking days ended. Kitchen hours were, 11am-11pm. I cleared the cash out of the box, and told the bar crowd to go home, at 1am. I was a boss, I was proud, I didn't know any better. I was not paid. I left home at age 17, and got a job, in another town, in another restaurant, that paid me to do much less. I went to college so that I would never have to work in a restaurant again. Nor have I.
The underlying problem in this situation was not the lack of schools, nutrition, medicine. The underlying problem was alcoholism. I learned that years later.
I should note, friends of mine worked in their family businesses during their young years. They were paid money, saved or spent their money as they wished. They worked when they wanted to work, or were asked to work when needed. In these conditions, I see no harm, and I see several benefits. If one is looking to justify child labor, then let's be clear and note that this situation is far different than what the article described.
Child labor due to necessity is one thing. Child labor by choice is another, and even that can have underlying issues unknown to the child. Being forced to work is yet another aspect. I suppose the question of child labor comes down to doing it by choice and for money, or doing it by need or force and not keeping the earnings. The point I make is, if there is an underlying problem, then child labor is not the solution. And the problem needs to be addressed.
Thanks for sharing your experience as a working child. You raise an important point of whether children really reap any financial/material benefit from working (often for no wages) for their families. This could make the difference between children's work and child labour.
Dear Anand, if one (child) has to work for financial/material benefits in their own family, then the parents have failed in their duty as parents.
A child would work "for free" for their own family. Point.
Outside school hours and not forcefully i think children can help with family business given all protective gear as adult would.
Thanks for your comment. What about in areas where there are no schools or where the teacher rarely or never comes? This is an unfortunate reality in many parts of the world.
I wonder if anyone counted how many places in school they have and if that would be enough if some restrictions were applied like in china about how many children they allowed to have because otherwise they are getting 5 and more with no means to support them leading to work abuse.
Yes, having many children does make it tougher to make ends meet. But birth rates have been falling in West Africa from around 7 children in the 1980s to under 5 today. Birth rates are reflective of the socio-economic conditions on the ground.
Dear LOL, your comment about China is at least 20 years outdated. Please look up the current situation regarding China.
Yeah, i am not saying they have it now, i am saying it is not a bad idea to implement something like that
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