Did you lose or gain Swiss citizenship? How did that affect your life?
Until 1953, if a Swiss woman married a foreigner, she automatically lost her Swiss citizenship.
Until 1992, if a Swiss woman married a foreigner, she had to declare to the civil registry office that she wished to retain her nationality. Failure to do so resulted in the loss of her Swiss citizenship, and her children would not be able to become Swiss citizens.
Did you lose or give up Swiss citizenship? Or did you become a Swiss citizen?
What impact has this had on your life?
Tell us your story.
Hello
My grandfather Friedrich emigrated to France around 1919, my mother Yvonne and her two brothers and sisters arrived in 1920.
Yvonne worked at a very young age in the Moutiers 73 factories and at the Stunzi spinning mill in Faverges 74210.
married to a man from Haute Savoie, she lost her nationality without knowing it
three children, including me born in 1944, life was very hard but the couple was courageous.
We live in Faverges with a "mixed" Swiss and French population. For my French friends, I'm the little Swiss boy, who gets laughed at, even the more discreet Swiss, the frouze, which I didn't take very well until I started sixth form as a boarder.
Bonjour
mon grand père Friedrich a émigré en France vers 1919 ma mère Yvonne et ses deux frères et soeurs sont arrivés en 1920.
Yvonne a travaillé très jeunes dans les usines de Moutiers 73 et à la filature Stunzi à Faverges 74210
mariée à un haut savoyard elle perd , sans le savoir sa nationalité
trois enfants, dont moi né en 1944, la vie est très dure mais le couple est courageux.
Nous habitons Faverges population ''mixte'' suisse et francaise. Pour mes copains français je suis le petit suisse, dont on se moque pur les suisses plus discrets le frouze je le vis assez mal jusqu'à mon entrée en sixième comme interne
My mother grew up in Switzerland and had to purchase her citizenship when she turned 18! When she married my father in NYC, she chose not to accept US citizenship because she did not want to lose her swiss. In the 1970's when swiss women were given the right to convey cituzenship to her children..then I received it.Since the 1990's I do live inside Switzerland.
Politics have always been important for me, and so I think Swiss policy ought to pay more attention to their foreign descendants..not only could they contribute to AHV/IV support..but connecting them to the principles of swiss law as well as swiss governance structures..could make the world a more democratic place..benefit foreign trade..export swiss values..without incurring huge financial costs..
Switzerland does so much trade with China!! Why not sort of follow their example?? And build trading partners by grooming swiss values with descendants of this incredible, diplomatic...Conflict-Culture??
Swiss tenacity, swiss ingenuity,..arose out of a rough and tumultuous history..swiss have insight that many other cultures lack..why not invest more in overseas education of these??
We're Swiss by blood, their country's in trouble and suddenly they feel Swiss? What a joke. Living for 50 years and only remembering your roots once the problems have arrived is a bit rich.
On est suisse par le sang, leur pays va mal et tout à coup ils se sentent suisses ? Quelle blague. Vivre 50 ans et ne se souvenir de ses racines qu’une fois les problèmes arrivés c’est un peu fort.
My mother Anna minnig lost her citizenship when she married a Colombian. Many, many years later there was an amnesty and she got it back My brothers and sisters who wanted to got citizenship. There were two who didn't want it at that time and now they are not allowed to m, I think it is a good proposal that it really should be facilitated citizenship I think it is discriminatory to leave out Swiss children because of their age.
My husband is Swiss, my 3 children and my 4 grandchildren are Swiss. They were registered at birth.
I support the initiative
Lucia chaves minnig
Mi madre Anna minnig perdió su ciudadanía al casarse con un colombiano. Muchísimos años después hubo una amnistía y la recuperó Mis hermanos que quisieron lograron la ciudadanía Era ciudadanía facilitada. Hubo dos que en ese momento no quisieron y ahora no se lo permiten m, me parece buena propuesta que realmente se ciudadanía facilitada Pienso que es discriminatorio dejar hijos de suizos por fuera por la edad
Mi esposo es suizo, mis 3 hijos y mis 4 nietos también. Se inscribieron al nacer.
Apoyo la iniciativa
Lucia chaves minnig
My name is Oscar Muschi, I come from a Ticinese family.
My grandfather, who came to Peru from the outskirts of the capital, never completed the consular registration process for my father and my uncles and aunts.
I was able to reactivate this process when my father was quite old and I was about 33 years old.
My father and his siblings regained Swiss citizenship, but the authorities denied citizenship to their respective children, as we were over the maximum age allowed to claim it.
Unfortunately, due to the situation in the country, it was not possible for us to comply with the provisions of the law in force at the time, which implied residing in Switzerland for a certain period of time and then claiming citizenship.
Throughout all this time we have tried to keep our relationship with the mother country open, but ironically, the country has closed its doors to us.
The red passport is granted to different people, with different grounds; I consider here that our roots are stronger arguments than those presented by foreigners.
Therefore, as a matter of principle, the current legislation for TRANSMISSION of citizenship should be revised.
I admire your work and will be grateful to be kept informed of any progress on the longed-for
Swiss Nationality for Offspring
I would also be grateful if you could let me know if you have a whatsapp group.
Thank you very much.
Mi nombre es Oscar Muschi, desciendo de una familia ticinese.
Mi abuelo de estableció, desde su llegada al Perú, en las afueras de la capital, jamas completó el tramite de inscripción consular de mi padre y mis tíos.
Esa gestión la pude reactivar cuando ya mi padre eta bastante mayor y yo tenía aproximadamente 33 años
Mi padre y sus hermanos recuperaron la ciudadanía suiza, pero las autoridades les negaron la ciudadanía a sus respectivos hijos, por encontrarnos por encima de la edad máxima permitida para reclamarla.
Lastimosamente, debido a la situación del país, no nos era posible, adecuarnos a lo dispuesto por la ley vigente, en ese entonces, Esto implicaba radicar en Suiza por un periodo determinado y luego, reclamar la ciudadanía.
En todo este tiempo hemos tratado de mantener abierta nuestra relación con la madre patria, pero irónicamente, la patria nos cierra las puertas.
El pasaporte rojo es otorgado a distintas personas, con diferentes sustentos; considero aquí, que nuestras raices son argumentos más solidos, que los presentados por aquellos extranjeros.
Por lo tanto, por una cuestión de principios la legislación vigente, para TRANSMISION de ciudadanía, debería de der revisada.
Admiro su trabajo y les agradeceré mantenerme informado sobre cualquier avance sobre el anhelo
Nacionalidad Suiza para la Descendencia
Del mismo modo les agradeceré indicarme si tienen algún grupo whatsapp
Muchas gracias
My mother, born in Argentina, was the daughter of a Swiss father and mother and together with her sisters and brothers was registered at the consulate. She married my father in December 1944. In those days communications were not as fast and efficient as they are today. Out of ignorance, when she married my father, who had French and Austrian blood but not Swiss, she did not inform the Swiss authorities in Buenos Aires of her wish to keep her nationality, which is why she lost it and that is why I did not receive the nationality when I was born. Needless to say, this was an aberrant and discriminatory law which, fortunately, years later ceased to be in force. But my 3 children and my sister's 3 children could not be registered at the consulate because when they were born we could not register our children because we did not have citizenship and so we could not register them.
When our status as Swiss was finally recognised, my children and my nephews and nieces had already exceeded this arbitrary age limit, and so they are not eligible for Swiss citizenship now either.
It is high time for the aurorities to recognise that there are laws that are badly made, that are discriminatory and that must be corrected once and for all.
Eduardo Puibusqué
Mi madre, Nacida en Argentina, era hija de padre y madre suizos los dos y junto con sus hermanas y hermanos estaba inscripta en el consulado . Se casó con mi padre en diciembre del año 1944. En esas épocas las comunicaciones no eran como son actualmente: rápidas y eficaces. Por desconocimiento al casarse con mi padre que tenía sangre francesa y austríaca pero no suiza, no comunicó a las autoridades suizas en Bunos Aires su deseo de conservar la nacionalidad razón por la cual la perdió y por eso al nacer yo no recibí la nacionalidad. Huelga decir que esa era una ley aberrante y discriminatoia que, felizmente, años después dejó de estar vigente. En virtud e la ley que estuvo vigente desde el 2006 hasta el 2018 mi hermana y yo pudimos recuperar nuestra ciudadanía suiza. pero mis 3 hijos y los 3 de mi hermana no pudieron ser inscriptos en el consulado porque cuando nacieron ellos al no tener nosotros la ciudadanía no podiamos hacer el trámite de inscripción de nuestros hijos.
Cuando finalmente nuestra condición de suizos fue debidamente reconocida mis hijos y mis sobrinos ya habían superado ese arbitrario límite de edad establecido y por eso tampoco ahora pueden acceder a la ciudadanía suiza.
Ya va siendo hora de que las auroridades reconozcan que hay leyes que están mal hechas, que son discriminatorias y que deben ser corregidas de una vez por todas.
Eduardo Puibusqué
Today, it is important to reposition the demand for Swiss nationals within the economic context of the countries in which Swiss expatriates live. Let's not forget that the economic crisis preceding the Second World War was a decisive factor in the flow of Swiss expatriates: the Third World was a major opportunity for their professional future.
Over the past few decades, however, I have been appalled to see the scandalous exploitation of this line of descent, particularly in South America. Descendants rush to the Swiss consulate when their offspring are born to register them and benefit from all the advantages linked to this acquisition by blood.
It seems to me that new legislation is needed in this area: the transmission of Swiss nationality should be definitively limited to ONE generation only, otherwise we will be perpetuating ad vita aeternam lineages whose sole aim is to benefit from the material advantages linked to transmission by blood.
Il importe aujourd'hui de repositionner les demandes de nationalités suisses dans le contexte économique des pays d'accueil des Suisses expatriés. N'oublions pas que la crise économique précédant la IIème guerre mondiale a été un facteur décisif dans le courant des expatriés suisses : le Tiers Monde étant une opportunité majeure d'avenir professionnel.
Or les décennies passées j'ai constaté avec effroit l'exploitation scandaleuse de cette filiation, en Amérique du Sud notamment. Les descendants se précipitent au consulat suisse, à la naissance des descendants, pour les enregistrer et bénéficier de tous les avantages liés à cette acquisition par le sang.
Il me semble qu'une nouvelle législation en la matière s'impose : limiter définitivement la transmission de la nationalité suisse à UNE SEULE génération sous peine d'entretenir ad vita aeternam des lignées dont le seul but est le bénéfice des avantages matériels liés à la transmission par le sang.
This lady is taking for true something that is not true.
She states that "In the last decades she has seen how scandalously it has been exploited etc. etc.".
I apologise for making a self-reference, but it is necessary: I have been Swiss for several years now and I do not have and have never asked for any of the benefits to which Mrs. Lacroix Jaeggy refers. The same applies to my sister, who is now deceased, and to several people in my circle. Moreover, none of us have ever had the idea of emigrating.
The only reason for having the nationality of our elders is to maintain our identity and our attachment to the Motherland, something that in countries formed by waves of immigration, as in the case of Argentina, is not at all unusual but quite common and not exclusive to the Swiss community.
It is true that there are people for everything, but to try to generalise some cases with the intention of installing them as a quasi-absolute truth is a mistake and also disrespectful.
Eduardo Puibusqué
Esta señora está dando por verdadero algo que no lo es.
Afirma que "En las últimas décadas ha visto con costernación como se ha explotado escandalosamente etc.etc."
Pido disculpas por hacer una autoreferencia, pero es necesario: Yo soy suizo desde hace ya varios años y no tengo ni he pedido jamás acogerme a ningúno de esos beneficios a los que la Sra. Lacroix Jaeggy hace referencia. Lo mismo puedo decir de mi hermana, ya fallecida y también de varias personas de mi entorno. Además ninguno de nosotros hemos tenido nunca la idea de emigrar.
El motivo de tener la nacionalidad de nuestros mayores es únicamente el de mantener nuestra identidad y nuestra consustanciación con la Madre Patria, algo que en países formados por olas inmigratorias, como es el caso de Argentina, no es nada extraordinario sino que bastante habitual y no exclusivo de la colectividaad suiza.
Cierto es que hay gente para todo pero pretender generalizar algunos casos con la intención de instalarlos como una verdad cuasi absoluta es un error y además una falta de respeto.
Eduardo Puibusqué
Dear Sir:
With the greatest respect and deepest feeling, we wish to respond to the ideas expressed about the descendants of Swiss emigrants in South America, especially those of us who live in Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Our purpose is none other than to present with sincerity our reality and motivations.
For us, Swiss citizenship does not mean access to economic benefits, pensions or social benefits. Nor do we seek to move to Switzerland or claim any material aid. What drives us is the love and pride for our roots, the desire to honour the memory of our ancestors who, in their time, left their homeland in search of a better future.
We live in countries where the distances between provinces are enormous, much greater than the size of Switzerland. For many of us, completing formalities at Swiss consulates involves days of travel, high costs and significant efforts. Despite these difficulties, we keep the Swiss spirit alive: we celebrate our traditions, preserve the language and pass on to our families the values of hard work, honesty and community that characterise Switzerland.
For us, Swiss nationality is a link to our roots, a way of preserving and passing on the identity that runs through our veins. We do not wish to perpetuate "lineages ad vita aeternam" out of material interest, but out of the conviction that the Swiss blood we inherited is part of who we are.
We recognise that citizenship claims must be dealt with responsibly and judiciously. However, to limit it to a single generation would, for many, be to close the door on a legacy we carry with pride. We are the descendants of those who, even in the distance, never forgot their homeland. We do not want to forget or be forgotten.
In an increasingly interconnected world, the "ius sanguinis" is not a tool of exploitation, but a bridge that unites generations and cultures. We, the descendants of Swiss emigrants in South America, are not asking for privileges. We ask for the recognition of a right that belongs to us by inheritance, but also by love and dedication to our Swiss identity.
With respect and gratitude, Karen Küffer, daughter of Swiss parents
Estimada:
Con el mayor respeto y profundo sentimiento, deseamos responder a las ideas expresadas sobre los descendientes de emigrantes suizos en Sudamérica, en especial aquellos que vivimos en Argentina, Chile y Uruguay. Nuestro propósito no es otro que el de exponer con sinceridad nuestra realidad y motivaciones.
Para nosotros, la ciudadanía suiza no representa un acceso a beneficios económicos, pensiones o prestaciones sociales. Tampoco buscamos mudarnos a Suiza ni reclamar ninguna ayuda material. Lo que nos mueve es el amor y el orgullo por nuestras raíces, el deseo de honrar la memoria de nuestros antepasados que, en su momento, dejaron su tierra natal buscando un futuro mejor.
Vivimos en países donde las distancias entre provincias son enormes, mucho mayores que la extensión del territorio suizo. Para muchos de nosotros, realizar los trámites en los consulados suizos implica días de viaje, costos elevados y esfuerzos significativos. A pesar de estas dificultades, mantenemos vivo el espíritu suizo: celebramos nuestras tradiciones, cuidamos el idioma y transmitimos a nuestras familias los valores de trabajo, honestidad y comunidad que caracterizan a Suiza.
La nacionalidad suiza, para nosotros, es un vínculo con nuestras raíces, una forma de preservar y transmitir la identidad que corre por nuestras venas. No deseamos perpetuar "linajes ad vita aeternam" por un interés material, sino por la convicción de que la sangre suiza que heredamos es parte de quienes somos.
Reconocemos que las demandas de ciudadanía deben ser tratadas con responsabilidad y criterio. Sin embargo, limitarla a una sola generación sería, para muchos, como cerrar las puertas a un legado que llevamos con orgullo. Somos los descendientes de aquellos que, aun en la lejanía, nunca olvidaron a su patria. No queremos olvidar ni ser olvidados.
En un mundo cada vez más interconectado, el "ius sanguinis" no es una herramienta de explotación, sino un puente que une generaciones y culturas. Nosotros, los descendientes de emigrantes suizos en Sudamérica, no pedimos privilegios. Pedimos el reconocimiento de un derecho que nos pertenece por herencia, pero también por amor y dedicación a nuestra identidad suiza.
Con respeto y gratitud, Karen Küffer, hija de padres suizos
Dear Mrs Helena,
Many of our grandparents and parents came to America, deluded by a dream, and yet they always represented Switzerland in a good light in their host countries. Because we are Swiss and nothing else. We would never demand the benefits of the Swiss state, because we - like true Swiss - are mainly hard-working people.
Moreover, your proposal to limit the passing on of citizenship to one generation makes little sense. Those who want to live at the expense of the state will continue to prioritise registering their children at the consulate, regardless of such restrictions. The solution is therefore not to limit it to ONE generation, but to introduce requirements such as language skills, knowledge of Swiss history and culture to prove that someone is actually Swiss.
Today, we already have a law that arbitrarily limits citizenship to only one generation and has excluded many good Swiss people while allowing others to enter. I emphasise once again: generational restrictions MAKE NO SENSE. There are people who can obtain citizenship directly as spouses or children of Swiss nationals without any major requirements - even if they have no real connection to Switzerland.
Yours sincerely
Sehr geehrte Frau Helena,
Viele unserer Grosseltern und Eltern kamen nach Amerika, getäuscht von einem Traum, und trotzdem haben sie die Schweiz in ihren Gastländern stets in einem guten Licht vertreten. Denn wir sind Schweizer und nichts anderes. Wir würden niemals die Wohltaten des Schweizer Staates einfordern, da wir – wie echte Schweizer – hauptsächlich hart arbeitende Menschen sind.
Zudem macht Ihr Vorschlag, die Weitergabe der Staatsbürgerschaft auf eine Generation zu begrenzen, wenig Sinn. Diejenigen, die auf Kosten des Staates leben wollen, werden weiterhin Priorität darauf legen, ihre Kinder beim Konsulat einzutragen, unabhängig von solchen Beschränkungen. Die Lösung liegt daher nicht in einer Begrenzung auf EINE Generation, sondern in der Einführung von Anforderungen wie Sprachkenntnissen, Wissen über die Schweizer Geschichte und Kultur, die belegen, dass jemand tatsächlich Schweizer ist.
Heutzutage gilt bereits ein Gesetz, das die Staatsbürgerschaft willkürlich auf nur eine Generation beschränkt und viele gute Schweizer ausgeschlossen hat, während es anderen den Zugang ermöglicht hat. Ich betone noch einmal: Generationsbeschränkungen MACHEN KEINEN SINN. Es gibt Menschen, die auch als Ehepartner oder Kinder von Schweizern direkt und ohne grosse Anforderungen die Staatsbürgerschaft erhalten können – selbst wenn sie keine wirkliche Verbindung zur Schweiz haben.
Mit freundlichen Grüssen
Dear Mrs Lacrox,
It is amazing to read your words, especially in the century we live in. What seems even more absurd to me is that Switzerland grants a passport to any individual, regardless of his or her roots, simply because he or she marries a Swiss citizen or is an elite athlete, such as the Argentinian tennis player Gabriela Sabatini or a model football player.
My surname THALMANN couldn't be more Swiss; there was no one in my grandfather's family who wasn't Swiss until he came to Argentina, and his records are in Ezcholzmat.
As the granddaughter of a Swiss citizen, I am not looking for advantages. I am a well educated, educated and educated professional. I do not need a passport to take advantage, but I need to keep my roots intact, and these roots are Swiss. Therefore, I have the right to obtain my citizenship according to the ius sanguinis.
I am not asking for anything, I am claiming my blood right, and my right is to maintain my citizenship of origin. As you say, it's not about a race to the embassy, it's about my roots. And my roots are not for economic reasons, but for a sense of belonging, because in addition to my Argentinian one, I am also Swiss, whether you like it or not.
Yours sincerely,
Silvana Thalmann
Sehr geehrte Frau Lacrox,
Es ist erstaunlich, Ihre Worte zu lesen, besonders im Jahrhundert, in dem wir leben. Was mich noch absurder erscheint, ist, dass die Schweiz jedem Individuum den Pass gewährt, unabhängig von seinen Wurzeln, einfach weil er oder sie einen Schweizer Staatsbürger heiratet oder ein Elite-Sportler ist, wie zum Beispiel die argentinische Tennisspielerin Gabriela Sabatini oder ein Modelfußballspieler.
Mein Nachname THALMANN könnte nicht mehr aus der Schweiz stammen; in der Familie meines Großvaters gab es niemanden, der nicht Schweizer war, bis er nach Argentinien kam, und seine Aufzeichnungen befinden sich in Ezcholzmat.
Als Enkelin eines Schweizer Staatsbürgers suche ich keine Vorteile. Ich bin eine gut ausgebildete, gebildete und erzogene Fachfrau. Ich brauche keinen Pass, um Vorteile zu ziehen, aber ich muss meine Wurzeln intakt bewahren, und diese Wurzeln sind Schweizer. Daher habe ich das Recht, gemäß dem ius sanguinis meine Staatsbürgerschaft zu erhalten.
Ich verlange nichts, ich fordere mein Blutrecht ein, und mein Recht ist es, meine Herkunftsstaatsbürgerschaft zu erhalten. Es geht, wie Sie sagen, nicht um ein Rennen zur Botschaft, sondern um meine Wurzeln. Und meine Wurzeln sind nicht aus wirtschaftlichen Gründen, sondern aus einem Zugehörigkeitsgefühl, weil ich neben meiner argentinischen auch eine Schweizerin bin, ob es Ihnen gefällt oder nicht.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Silvana Thalmann
Switzerland grants a renewable B permit to an individual who marries a Swiss, then a C permit, permanent residency, after the required number of years. To obtain Swiss nationality you then have to go through a naturalization process, but it is quicker than for most people. In the only case I know the person had young children at school in Switzerland and the process was fairly straightforward in her case
When my daughter was born, I went straight to the Swiss consulate with her birth certificate to register her.
Once that was done, I applied for her passport to check that everything was in order.
That was 30 years ago... in South America.
Everything worked without a hitch. Why did I do it? I had the firm intention of passing on my Swiss nationality to my children. Just in case ...
Quand ma fille est née, je suis allé directement au consulat suisse avec son acte de naissance afin de l’enregistrer.
Une fois la procédure réalisée, j’ai fait la demande pour son passeport afin de vérifier que tout était en ordre.
C’était il y a 30 ans … en Amérique du Sud.
Tout à fonctionné sans problème. Pourquoi l’ai-je fait ? J’avais la ferme intention de transmettre ma nationalité suisse à mes enfants. Au cas où …
Some of these posts clearly show that we in Switzerland, and also with Swiss representations around the world, are always at the mercy of employees who act completely arbitrarily. Just as with the different cantons, the treatment can be very different, it just depends on who you have at the counter or on the phone. That's why I do everything in writing.
I returned to Switzerland 6 years ago to support my son after 53 years in North America and have changed my canton of residence twice. The mistrust I was met with because of my long absence from Switzerland was very surprising. I speak fluent Swiss German, so it certainly wasn't because of the language. Yes, a lot has changed in Switzerland over the years, but it hasn't necessarily improved, especially for women and their children.
It is not acceptable that two different yardsticks are used when it comes to basic human rights for a person of Swiss origin, even if it is one or two generations back. Fortunately, I was told by a woman at the Swiss embassy that I had to ask to keep my Swiss citizenship before my wedding if I married a foreigner. So I was lucky to meet an employee who did her job well. My sister-in-law didn't fare so well when she married an Austrian in Switzerland. She had no idea and lost her citizenship for herself and her descendants, even though she was born and raised in the canton of St. Gallen.
In the 6 years I have learnt to question all the information I am given, because my trust in all Swiss authorities, whether AHV, municipality, taxes, is very low. I have also learnt not to simply accept everything, which really doesn't sit well with some of these people. Yes, as I mentioned before, a lot has changed, but much has improved? The biggest Swiss problem still often seems to be the same - envy.
Einige dieser Posts zeigen klar, dass wir in der Schweiz, und auch mit Schweizervertretungen in der Welt, immer wieder Angestellten ausgeliefert sind die total willkürlich handeln. Genau wie mit den verschiedenen Kanton kann die Behandlung ganz verschieden sein, es kommt halt darauf an wen man am Schalter oder am Telefon hat. Darum mache ich alles schriftlich.
Ich bin vor 6 Jahren zur Unterstützung meines Sohnes nach 53 Jahren in Nord Amerika in die Schweiz zurück gekehrt und habe zweimal den Wohnkanton gewechselt. Das Misstrauen das mir wegen meiner langen Abwesenheit von der Schweiz gegenüber gestellt wurde, war war sehr überraschend. Ich spreche fliessend schweizerdeutsch, so es lag bestimmt nicht an der Sprache. Ja, es hat sich über die Jahre viel in der Schweiz verändert, aber nicht unbedingt verbessert, vor allem fuer die Frauen und deren Kinder.
Es darf doch nicht sein, dass mit zwei verschiedenen Mass Stäben gemessen wird wenn es um Basis Menschenrechte geht fuer eine Person mit Schweizer Herkunft auch wenn es ein oder zwei Generationen zurück sind. Mir wurde glücklicherweise auf der Schweizer Botschaft von einer Frau gesagt ich müsse vor meiner Hochzeit verlangen, dass ich meine Schweizer Bürgerschaft behalten wolle wenn ich einen Ausländer heirate. Somit hatte ich Glück eine Angestellte zu treffen die ihren Job gut ausführte. Meiner Schwägerin ging es nicht so gut als sie in der Schweiz einen Österreicher heiratete. Sie hatte keine Ahnung und verlor fuer sich und ihre Nachkommen das Bürgerrecht obwohl sie im Kanton St. Gallen geborgen und aufgewachsen war.
In den 6 Jahren habe ich gelernt alle Information die mir gegeben wird zu hinterfragen, denn mein Vertrauen in alle Schweizer Behörden, ob AHV, Gemeinde, Steuern, ist sehr niedrig. Ich habe auch gelernt nicht einfach alles zu akzeptieren, das passt einigen dieser Leute aber wirklich nicht gut. Ja, wie schon vorher erwaehnte, es hat sich einiges verändert aber viel verbessert? Der groesste Schweizer scheint doch noch öfters derselbe zu sein -- der NEID.
I don't see the point of Swiss nationality for second or third generations born abroad, especially outside the EU. Do they still speak one of the national languages? Do they come to Switzerland regularly to visit their families and see what's going on? In your example, for forty years they completely forgot about Switzerland because you can't vote without a passport and if they had returned to Switzerland every year, they would have realised straight away that there had been a problem at the embassy. I think waiting 40 years to remember your roots shows how little interest there is in Switzerland.
Je ne vois pas l'intérêt de la nationalité suisse pour les deuxième ou troisième générations nés à l'étranger et surtout hors UE. Parlent-ils encore une des langues nationales ? Viennent-ils régulièrement en Suisse trouver leur famille, pour voir ce qui s'y passe ? Dans votre exemple, pendant quarante ans ils ont complètement oublié la Suisse car sans passeport on ne vote pas et s'ils étaient rentrés en Suisse chaque année, ils se seraient rendu compte tout de suite qu'il y avait eu un problème à l'ambassade. Je pense qu'attendre 40 ans pour se souvenir de ses racines prouve le peu d'intérêt envers la Suisse.
My great grandfather Charles Saillet lived 1500 km away from the Swiss embassy and never registered any of his children, he died in 1905 and all his documents were lost.
Mi bisabuelo charles saillet vivió muy lejos de la embajada Suiza a 1500 km y nunca registro a ninguno de sus hijos, murió en 1905 y se perdió toda su documentación.
Is their reporting serious? The figure in the first example you cited has not shown the slightest concern for the interests of Switzerland for at least 43 years. During this long period of time, it should have been obvious that he was neither entitled to vote nor to stand for election in Switzerland.
Ist ihre Berichterstattung seriös. Die Figur im ersten von Ihnen genannten Beispiel hat sich während mindestens 43 Jahren nicht im geringsten um dieBelange der Schweiz gekümmert. Es hättedoch während dieser langen Zeitspanne auffallen müssen, dass er in der Schweiz weder stimm- noch wahlberechtigt war.
Dear reader 99
Thank you for your contribution.
It is indeed the case: If you are Swiss abroad and want to take part in federal elections or votes, you have to register in the electoral register. This means that you can be registered as a Swiss citizen abroad at the consulate without being entered in the electoral register.
So if you assume all your life that you were registered at birth and do not make any trips abroad for which you would need a passport or visa, it may well be that you only realise this omission at such a late stage.
Lieber Leser 99
Vielen Dank für Ihren Beitrag.
Es ist in der Tat so: Wenn man als Schweizerin oder Schweizer im Ausland an eidgenössischen Wahlen oder Abstimmung teilnehmen will, dass man sich im Stimm- und Wahlregister eintragen muss. Man kann also als Auslandschweizerin oder Auslandschweizer beim Konsulat gemeldet sein, ohne im Stimmregister eingetragen zu sein.
Wenn man also ein Leben lang davon ausgeht, dass man bei der Geburt registriert wurde und während Jahren keine Auslandreisen tätigt, bei dem man einen Pass oder Visum bräuchte, kann es durchaus sein, dass einem dieses Versäumnis erst so spät bemerkt.
Dear,
We understand your concerns and appreciate the opportunity to clarify this point. It is important to stress that the lack of active participation of many Swiss descendants is not due to a lack of interest, but to the enormous practical difficulties they faced and still face.
Until relatively recently, means of communication and transport were limited and expensive, especially in countries such as Argentina, Chile and Uruguay, where distances between provinces are vast. Any formalities related to citizenship, registration or even keeping up with Swiss affairs were extremely complicated. Many families simply did not have the financial and logistical resources to make long trips to the Swiss embassy, which in some cases could involve days of travel.
This does not mean that there was no interest or love for Switzerland. On the contrary, Swiss traditions, language and values were kept alive in their homes. These people did not vote or run for office in Switzerland, not out of indifference, but because geographical, economic and communication circumstances made it practically impossible for them to do so (in addition to the loss of documents by the embassy or post office), letters did not reach their destination.
Today, in a more connected world, many descendants are raising their voices to recover a right they have always felt as their own. They are not seeking material benefits or political advantages, but simply to honour their heritage and strengthen their link to the land of their ancestors, as dictated by the Swiss Constitution, the "IUS SANGUINIS".
We hope that this explanation will contribute to a better understanding of the motivations and historical context of those who, with pride and respect, wish to keep their Swiss identity alive.
With respect and consideration, Karen Küffer (daughter of Swiss parents)
Estimado,
Entendemos sus preocupaciones y agradecemos la oportunidad de aclarar este punto. Es importante destacar que la falta de participación activa de muchos descendientes de suizos no se debe a una falta de interés, sino a las enormes dificultades prácticas que enfrentaron y enfrentan todavía.
Hasta hace relativamente poco tiempo, los medios de comunicación y transporte eran limitados y costosos, especialmente en países como Argentina, Chile y Uruguay, donde las distancias entre provincias son vastísimas. Realizar cualquier trámite relacionado con la ciudadanía, el registro o incluso mantenerse al día con los asuntos suizos era extremadamente complicado. Muchas familias simplemente no tenían los recursos económicos ni logísticos para realizar viajes largos a la embajada suiza, que en algunos casos podía implicar días de viaje.
Esto no significa que no haya existido interés o amor por Suiza. Muy por el contrario, en sus hogares se mantuvieron vivas las tradiciones, el idioma y los valores suizos. Estas personas no votaron ni se postularon en Suiza, no por indiferencia, sino porque las circunstancias geográficas, económicas y de comunicación se lo hicieron prácticamente imposible. ( Sumado a la pérdida de documentos por parte de la embajada o correo postal) las cartas no llegaban a destino.
Hoy, en un mundo más conectado, muchos descendientes están alzando la voz para recuperar un derecho que siempre han sentido como propio. No buscan beneficios materiales ni ventajas políticas, sino simplemente honrar su herencia y fortalecer su vínculo con la tierra de sus antepasados, como lo dicta la Constitución Suiza, el "IUS SANGUINIS"
Esperamos que esta explicación contribuya a comprender mejor las motivaciones y el contexto histórico de quienes, con orgullo y respeto, desean mantener viva su identidad suiza.
Con respeto y consideración, Karen Küffer (hija de padres suizos)
Dear "Reader 99",
Since you do not identify yourself, we do not even know if your surname belongs to Switzerland. Many of us descendants of Swiss abroad have had very difficult experiences in rural areas, and we have never been notified when we have been arbitrarily stripped of our citizenship by law.
I would like to meet you in person to ask you questions about Switzerland and see if you even know what we descendants abroad know about our home country. Perhaps we represent Switzerland more than you realise.
Yours sincerely
Sehr geehrter "Leser 99",
Da Sie sich nicht identifizieren, wissen wir nicht einmal, ob Ihr Nachname zur Schweiz gehört. Viele von uns Nachkommen von Schweizern im Ausland haben sehr schwierige Erfahrungen in ländlichen Gebieten gemacht, und man hat uns niemals benachrichtigt, wenn uns durch ein Gesetz willkürlich die Staatsbürgerschaft entzogen wurde.
Ich würde Sie gerne persönlich treffen, um Ihnen Fragen über die Schweiz zu stellen und zu sehen, ob Sie überhaupt wissen, was wir Nachkommen im Ausland über unser Heimatland wissen. Vielleicht vertreten wir die Schweiz mehr, als Sie es selbst bemerken.
Mit freundlichen Grüssen
I had Swiss nationality, as did my three sisters. I married a Chilean and lost it.
I am the only one in my family who lost it.
Will this law that treats women differently from men change soon?
I went to the consulate and the procedures to get it back are so difficult and expensive that it is practically impossible.
My hope is that the law will change.
Tenía nacionalidad suiza al igual que mis tres hermanas. Me casé con un chileno y la perdí.
Soy la única de mi familia que la perdió.
Irá a cambiar pronto esta ley que trata distinto a las mujeres que a los hombres?
Fui al consulado y los trámites para recuperarla son tan difíciles y caros que lo hacen prácticamente imposible.
Mi esperanza es que cambie la norma.
Dear Carla R
Thank you for your contribution. When did you get married?
Actually, according to the current regulations, it should be possible to naturalise again:
Read the article by Christiane Humbert here: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/swiss-citizenship-discrimination-against-women-continues/48504854
Liebe Carla R
Vielen Dank für Ihren Beitrag. Wann haben Sie geheiratet?
Eigentlich sollte es gemäss den heute geltenden Bestimmungen möglich sein, sich wiedereinzubürgern:
Lesen Sie hier den Artikel von Christiane Humbert: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/swiss-citizenship-discrimination-against-women-continues/48504854
I was told that I lost my ability to apply for Swiss citizenship because I married a non-Swiss man, The year I married was 1966. I called the Swiss consulate in San Francisco, California to ask about the process for application.
I was told of the law about a woman's loss of citizenship by marrying a non-Swiss, I asked if I was a man and married a woman who was not a Swiss citizen, could apply.? I was told that there is no law applicable to a man losing the ability to apply for citizenship by marrying a non-Swiss citizen.
I was surprised that women were not treated equally under Swiss law.
My Father traveled with a Swiss passport, ran a restaurant in San Francisco called THE THREE LITTLE SWISS, and registered my sister and me in his hometown in Switzerlandwhere he was raised. and I believed that I, too, could obtain a Swiss passport. Both my mother and father are Swiss, and I always felt Swiss..
Thank you for your contribution. Many Swiss people felt the same way as you. Fortunately, the law was changed in 2003 so that many Swiss women were able to reclaim their citizenship. Have you ever thought about it?
Vielen Dank für Ihren Beitrag. So wie Ihnen ging es vielen Schweizer:innen. Zum Glück hat das Gesetz 2003 geändert, so dass viele Schweizerinnen das Bürgerrecht zurückverlangen konnten. Haben Sie sich das schon mal überlegt?
Hello, in 2014 I married a Thai woman with her 14-month-old daughter Kittiya, both of whom came to live in Switzerland for 3 years. In 2017 following health problems I immigrated to Thailand where I undertook to adopt my wife's daughter Kittiya, after 3 years of procedures this was done on 5 January 2023. In Thailand I am the only legal parent for my daughter the adoption cuts all links with the biological parents, but my daughter is not recognised by Switzerland as being Swiss although she bears my name and does not appear on my family record book ... reason? Unsigned conversations at the Hague!
Bonjour, en 2014 j ai épouser une femme thaï avec sa petite fille de 14 mois Kittiya toutes 2 sont venu habiter en Suisse pendant 3 ans . En 2017 suite à des problèmes de santé j si immigrés en Thaïlande ou j ai entrepris d adopté la fille de ma femme Kittiya , après 3 ans de démarches se fut fait le 5 janvier 2023 .en Thaïlande je suis le seul parent légal pour ma fille l adoption coupe tous lien avec les parents biologiques , mais ma fille n est pas reconnu par La Suisse comme étant suissesse bien qu elle porte mon nom et ne figure pas sur mon livret de famille … raison? Des conversations non signées à la Haie !
Thank you for your contribution. Do you live in Switzerland or Thailand today?
Vielen Dank für Ihren Beitrag. Leben Sie heute in der Schweiz oder in Thailand?
I became Swiss because I was born in Switzerland and both my parents were Swiss. In a certain sense, I am grateful for this coincidence. But I am absolutely not particularly proud of this coincidental fact. A country like Switzerland, which has a strong connection to the ideals of the Enlightenment "Pestalozzi, J.J. Rousseau, Albert Schweizer" etc. is no longer in a position to stand unequivocally and unconditionally, with a loud voice, behind fundamental human rights, freedom and peace rights, should be avoided. Friederich Dürrenmatt once called this state a state in ruins and even compared it to a "prison, not quite as bad as Gaza". Legally, I am a citizen of the Swiss Confederation and have a passport. In human terms, I have become a citizen of the world and am happy and content even without Switzerland. That's why I live abroad and no longer have to fight for money every day. I'm sure there are now some "good" Swiss people who would love to take away my citizenship. I invite the lost Swiss to stay where they are, you always take yourself with you wherever you go and Switzerland is certainly not the land where "milk and honey" flow, even if it is a unique and magnificent landscape. I wish you all much joy and happiness in YOUR current home country.
ich bin Schweizer geworden, weil ich in der Schweiz geboren wurde und meine beiden Elternteile Schweizer waren. Ich bin in einem gewissen Sinn dankbar, für diesen Zufall. Ich bin deshalb aber absolut nicht besonders stolz wegen dieser zufälligen Tatsache. Ein Land, wie die Schweiz, dass grossen Bezug hat zu den idealen der Aufklärung "Pestalozzi, J.J. Rousseau, Albert Schweizer" etc. ist nicht mehr in der Lage sich unmissverständlich und bedingungslos, mit lauter Stimme hinter die fundamentalen Menschenrechte, Freiheits- und Friedensrechte zu stellen, sollte man meiden. Friederich Dürrenmatt nannte diesen Staat einmal einen verluderten Staat und verglich ihn sogar mit einem "Gefängnis, nicht ganz so schlimm, wie Gaza". Rechtlich bin ich Bürger der schweizerischen Eidgenossenschaft und habe auch so einen Pass. Menschlich bin ich ein Weltbürger geworden und bin glücklich und zufrieden auch ohne die Schweiz. Deshalb lebe ich auch im Ausland, und muss nicht mehr täglich ums Geld kämpfen. Sicher gibt es jetzt einige "gute" Schweizer die mir das Bürgerrecht am liebsten wegnehmen möchten. Ich lade die verlorenen Schweizer/innen ein, bleiben da wo sie sind, man nimmt sich selber immer auch mit, wo immer man hingeht und die Schweiz ist ganz sicher nicht das Land wo "Milch und Honig" fliessen, auch wenn sie landschaftlich einmalig und grossartig ist. Allen viel Lebensfreude und Glück in IHRER jetzigen Heimat.
Can you explain the following to me, Mrs M. Eichenberger?
A woman called "Matteerhorncindy" writes - 2023-10-11-16.56...
In the article, however, the woman "Materhorn-Cindy" writes that she wants to travel to Switzerland on 24 March 2024....., so she must have written her report before 24 March 2024. How do you explain these time shifts/changes? Thank you pje
Können Sie mir, Frau M. Eichenberger folgendes erklären?
Da schreibt eine Frau "Matteerhorncindy" - 2023-10-11-16.56...
Im Beitrag schreibt aber die Frau "Materhorn-Cindy" dass sie am 24. März 2024 in die Schweiz reisen will.....also muss sie ihren Bericht schon vor dem 24. März 2024 geschrieben haben. Wie erklären Sie diese Zeitverschiebungen/Aenderungen? Danke pje
Dear Mr Ern
I don't know exactly what you mean. But I can explain to you how our debates work. Why don't you get in touch with me: melanie.eichenberger@swissinfo.ch
Lieber Herr Ern
Ich weiss nicht genau, was Sie meinen. Aber ich kann Ihnen gerne erklären, wie unsere Debatten funktionieren. Melden Sie sich doch bei mir: melanie.eichenberger@swissinfo.ch
Hello. I, too, have a question regarding reinstating Swiss citizenship.
Both maternal great-grandparents were born in Switzerland. They emigrated to San Francisco in the late 1800’s. Neither became US citizens. My grandmother’s mother died when my grandmother was at 10 (around 1903). My grandmother was then put into a local orphanage. It is my belief she would not have known Swiss law and revocation after age of 25 unless declaring such at a local consulate. Any information regarding this situation would be appreciated as I am now looking at my options going forward.
Thanks to all here!
My grandmother lost her Swiss nationality in 1934 when she married my Ecuadorian grandfather. In 1992 that nationality was returned to her shortly before her death. My father and his brothers and sister, as well as their children under 18, obtained Swiss nationality without problem. But for my generation, a longer and more complicated process had to be followed. One of my brothers was able to achieve it but I and another brother were unable to meet a complex series of requirements. For me it was very sad and frustrating not to be able to be Swiss for simple and profound reasons of blood and heritage, beyond the formal requirements related to languages and visits to Switzerland.
Thank you very much for your description. I think many descendants of Swiss nationals feel the same way. What requirements were you unable to fulfil in order to obtain citizenship?
Vielen Dank für Ihre Schilderung. Ich glaube, es geht vielen Nachkommen von Schweizer:innen so. Welche Anforderungen konnten Sie nicht erfüllen, um die Staatsbürgerschaft zu erhalten?
Would it be possible to get the law firm that they used as we have a very similar story but just in South Africa
Looking forward to hearing from you soon as we need help!
Best wishes
Astrid Carigiet
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