How should Switzerland relieve congestion on its motorways?
On November 24 Swiss voters will decide on a government proposal to finance six motorway expansion projects aimed at improving congestion on the roads. It includes plans to widen one of the country’s major motorways to at least six lanes in key stretches between Bern and Zurich and between Geneva and Lausanne.
The overall proposal is set to cost CHF5.3 billion ($6.2 billion).
Is such an investment really necessary to cope with the increase in traffic? Or is it a waste of money and incompatible with Switzerland’s climate objectives, as some critics say?
Let us know your thoughts below. We want to hear your opinions.
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Voters to decide on major Swiss motorway expansion
motorways need to be widened and new ones built.
Switching to rail is expensive and poorly served
il faut élargir les autoroutes et en construire de nouvelles.
Passer au rail est cher et mal desservi
5.3 billion could be used to redesign cities and improve public transit and promote other forms of mobility (like cycling which is made possible by densification and redesigning road infrastructure). I’m pretty sure this would reduce traffic way more than an extra lane
Motorways are essential for people living in rural areas. Especially as shops, post offices, banks and leisure facilities are all located in towns. But the towns don't want the cars, and therefore the inhabitants of the outlying regions.
Remedies: Limit this excessive immigration; don't allow factories to be set up that require more than 30% foreign staff. To avoid the cities, relocate shops, doctors, hospitals, post offices and higher education establishments to the countryside.
Switzerland is a small country, with lots of rocks, lakes and forests. This concentration of buildings and inhabitants will very quickly create serious ecological problems, lack of water, food and infrastructure. The short-term money of a few will ruin the lives, health and well-being of the whole population.
At the international political level, we need to intervene in African countries so that these populations can live decently with their families. In other words, put an end to the corruption of heads of state, promote contraception and find agricultural solutions to feed the people.
Les autoroutes, sont indispensables pour les habitants des régions rurales. D'autant plus que commerces, postes, banques, loisirs se passent en ville. Mais les villes , ne veulent plus les voitures et donc les habitants des régions périphériques.
Remèdes : Limiter cette trop forte immigration ; Ne pas laisser implanter des usines qui nécessitent plus de 30 % de personnel étranger. Pour éviter les villes, remettre commerces, médecins, hôpitaux , postes PTT; écoles supérieures, à la campagne.
La Suisse est un petit Pays, avec beaucoup de rochers, de lacs, de forêts. Cette concentration de constructions, d'habitants, va très rapidement créer de graves problèmes écologiques, manque d'eau, de nourriture, d'infrastructures. Le fric à court terme de quelques uns, va ruiner la vis, la santé et le bien-être de l'ensemble de la population.
Au niveau Politique internationale, intervenir dans les Pays africains, afin que ces populations puissent vivre décemment avec leurs familles. Soit, mettre fin à la corruption des chefs d’États , favoriser la contraception ; trouver des solutions agricoles pour nourrir les peuples.
I know that in the area of my small town there has been a building boom with apartments buildings going up everywhere. Most are giant ugly things with little interest in the beauty of the town, as well Virgin land is being covered up where towns are enjoying less and less green and more an more concrete. I wonder how much more will come and where are all these people ar coming from to take up residence in all these new apartment buildings?
In my small town, the access to our two lane main road is the only exit we have and we have seen an enormous increase of traffic. Do we have to now enlarge our two-lane main road for more and more traffic or shall we stop adding to our population? The question is how many more people can Switzerland afford to add before it becomes all concrete and roads.
I am of the opinion that offers and routes by public transport, such as metros, should be enhanced. In Ticino, for example, we have long since lost the train that would connect the various cities by metro, and I believe that other cantons are no less.
Another consideration that needs to be thought about is work from home for those who can do it, this should be enhanced. We have the technology to be able to realise this. For the costs, the already existing revenues should be converted to build more public infrastructure. Not by making roads but by upgrading the public network, as I said above. I would also agree to pay the motorway vignette of 100 fr per year. Then too much centralisation of offers and infrastructure must also be considered, it generates traffic.
Sono dell'avviso che bisognerebbe potenziare offerte e vie di transito tramite mezzi pubblici, come ad esempio le metropolitane. In Ticino ad esempio si è perso da tempo il treno che collegasse tramite un metropolitana le diverse città, e credo che altri cantoni non siano di meno.
Un'altra considerazione che va pensata è il lavoro da casa per chi lo può fare, questo dovrebbe essere potenziato. Abbiamo la tecnologia per poter realizzare tali condizioni. Per i costi, le già entrate attuali, devono essere convertite per costruire di più infrastrutture pubbliche. Non facendo strade ma potenziare la rete pubblica, come ho detto sopra. Sarei anche d'accordo nel pagare la vignetta autostradale di 100 fr all'anno. Poi va pensata anche la troppa centralizzazione di offerte e infrastrutture, genera traffico.
The solution is obviously technological and the construction of Swiss metros (technologies that already exist in China and Japan!). Cars take up a lot of floor space and carry very few people! What's more, the speed limit on motorways is 120 km/h for obvious safety reasons, and all vehicles travel at 120 km/h on motorways, making it impossible to overtake. Widening motorways does nothing to improve traffic flow or reduce congestion.
La solution est évidemment technologique et la construction de Swiss métro (technologies déjà existantes en Chine et au Japon !). Les voitures occupent beaucoup d’espace au sol et transportent peu de personnes ! De plus, la vitesse est limitée à 120 km/h sur les autoroutes pour des raisons évidentes de sécurité et tous les véhicules roulent à 120 km/h sur les autoroutes et il est impossible de dépasser ; l’élargissement des autoroutes n’accroît pas la fluidité du trafic et à réduire les embouteillages.
There is a very detailed article with lots of figures on the subject of motorways on swissinfo. Among other things, it lists various reasons why traffic growth in Switzerland over the last 30 years has been so much higher than population growth. In addition to growing leisure mobility, these include in particular the dependence of commuters on cars: Switzerland's motorway network is one of the densest in Europe, and for years Switzerland has invested more in its motorways than all other OECD countries for which figures are available. In addition, the "car myth" still exerts a strong control over thinking: people believe in the possibility of congestion-free motorway traffic, do not realise that it is the most expensive means of transport overall, both for users and for the general public, and generally fail to take a thorough look at the facts and figures.
The supposed benefits of the motorway expansion are questioned by experts. Within a few years, the new lanes will also be saturated, as they will generate additional traffic (longer distances are accepted if they can be expected to be travelled quickly). One thing is certain: the expansion will harm the climate.
Es gibt einen sehr detaillierten Artikel mit vielen Zahlen zum Thema Autobahnen auf swissinfo. Er listet u.a. diverse Gründe auf, warum das Verkehrswachstum der letzten 30 Jahren in der Schweiz so viel stärker war als das Bevölkerungswachstum. Dazu zählt neben der wachsenden Freizeitmobilität insbesondere auch die Abhängigkeit der Arbeitspendler vom Auto: das Autobahnnetz der Schweiz ist eines der dichtesten in Europa, und seit Jahren investiert die Schweiz mehr in ihre Autobahnen als alle anderen OECD-Länder, für die es dazu Zahlen gibt. Zudem übt der "Mythos Auto" noch eine starke Kontrolle über das Denken aus: man glaubt an die Möglichkeit des staufreien Autoverkehrs, nimmt nicht wahr, dass es sich insgesamt um das teuerste Verkehrsmittel sowohl für die Nutzer als auch für die Allgemeinheit handelt, und versäumt es insgesamt, sich mit Zahlen und Fakten gründlich auseinanderzusetzen.
Der vermeintliche Nutzen des Autobahn-Ausbaus wird von Fachleuten in Frage gestellt. Innert weniger Jahre werden die neuen Spuren ebenfalls saturiert sein, da sie zusätzlichen Verkehr entstehen lassen (grössere Strecken werden in Kauf genommen, wenn man erwarten kann, sie schnell zu bewältigen). Was sicher ist: dem Klima schadet der Ausbau.
Extending motorways solves none of the problems they are supposed to solve:
- the additional lanes will inevitably lead to a greater flow of vehicles, so nothing will be solved
- farmland and villages hitherto spared from motorway-related traffic will inevitably be affected by more traffic
- pollution will undoubtedly increase, especially as no effort is being made at the same time to reduce the very high cost of public transport in Switzerland.
L'extension des autoroutes ne résout aucun des problèmes qu'elle est sensée résoudre :
- les voies supplémentaires provoqueront inévitablement un flux de véhicules plus important, donc rien ne sera résolu
- du terrain agricole, des villages jusqu'ici épargnés par le trafic lié à l'autoroute seront inévitablement touchés par une circulation plus importante
- la pollution augmentera sans aucun doute, surtout qu'aucun effort n'est entrepris en même temps pour baisser le prix très élevé des transports publics en Suisse.
I've heard or read before that Switzerland tries to discourage people from driving by trying to make it inconvenient to do so. So I'm not sure if that is actually true, but the reality is that not everyone can take a train or bus easily. Taking those often requires a lot of walking, which unfortunately, not everyone is able to easily do (I often see elderly people in my neighborhood struggling to walk). Also, it can be very difficult to take public transportation when you have a baby in a stroller, as many trains and buses and trams only have stairs. I know that Switzerland is infamous for being very slow to make changes, but I think the government here really needs to accept the fact that society is changing and population is increasing and adapt and evolve accordingly. And as it is now, climate change is going to continue to make crowded trains with no air conditioning more and more unbearable. Imagine riding a a very crowded train with no air circulation and no air conditioning on a 40-degree C day. No thanks. I think it's time Switzerland gets it's head out of the dark ages.
I think you haven’t ridden a Swiss train in a while lol, most of them are fully accessible and air conditioned
Soft mobility, travelling on foot and by train: it's the future, relatively comfortable and fairly reliable. However, if you find yourself late at night in one of our stations in French-speaking Switzerland, the desire to take the train can quickly disappear. The motorway, traffic jams and even the search for my car in the Plainpalais car park suddenly become more attractive than the risk of being harassed at the station!
While we wait for initiatives to transform our stations into welcoming and safe spaces, let's improve the motorways!
La mobilité douce, les déplacements à pied et en train : c’est l’avenir, relativement confortable et assez fiable. Cependant, si vous vous retrouvez tard le soir dans l’une de nos gares en Suisse romande, l’envie de prendre le train peut vite disparaître. L’autoroute, les embouteillages, et même la recherche de mon véhicule dans le parking de Plainpalais deviennent soudain plus attrayants que risquer de me faire harceler à la gare !
En attendant des initiatives pour transformer nos gares en espaces accueillants et sécurisants, améliorons les autoroutes !
There is no point in spending billions on widening motorways. More than 350 experts from universities and planning offices are calling for a NO vote because the projects are not compatible with a shift towards soft mobility. The induced traffic would mean that the roads would be saturated again 2-5 years after the work was completed anyway. Money should not be wasted, even if it comes from mineral taxes.
Mettre des milliards dans l’élargissement des autoroutes ne sert à rien. Plus de 350 experts issus des universités et des bureaux de planification appellent à voter NON car les projets ne sont pas compatibles avec la réorientation vers la mobilité douce. Le trafic induit ferait que les routes seraient de nouveau saturées 2-5 ans après la fin des travaux, de toute façon. Il ne faut pas gaspiller l’argent même s’il provient des taxes minérales.
Building more roads is a lazy way to solve a complex problem.
Regulating traffic (per hour) or regulating sales of vehicles have a more direct impact on amount of traffic in any given time of a day.
Congestion charges (like in Singapore or London) may help out the city-centers. Higher tax for unnecessary luxury cars could slow down the number of cars. Vehicle tax breaks for big families or people with disabilities could modulate the ownership of cars. Commercial vehicles traffic also need to be reviewed and new regulations to reduce congestion or travel through residential villages to reduce air and noise pollution.
So many things to do.
Building more roads is just a visible but lazy way to spend money, pretending to solve the complex problem. It is basically the politicians' win-win solution for themselves.
The last mile of P+R does not work and the cost of parking and trains is too high.
Until then, we need to expand roads. It's as simple as that. People would take P+R if it was time and cost effective, but it simply isn't!
I see your reasoning, but how will we be able to reduce costs of transit and p+r if all the money is spent on expanding roads? Let’s start today and use that money differently
Increase the frequency of train services, and provide services to smaller communities. And ask border countries to build P+Rs.
Augmenter les cadences de train, desservir aussi les petites communes. Et demander aux pays frontaliers de construire des P+R.
Trains are expensive, but interesting for city-to-city journeys, with bus services from home to the station. But difficult for remote areas. The latter have to use their cars to get to stations, and parking soon becomes more expensive than taking the train. Motorways are necessary, but the problem of motorway exits paralyses regional traffic. Given that most people in the tertiary sector are working less and less, they travel much more by car. So many unnecessary kilometres and so much pollution. It's not great for biodiversity or the planet. Now is the time for motorists to pay to cross our country on motorways and tunnels. Like in France and other countries.
Les trains, sont chers, ils sont intéressants pour les voyages de ville à ville , avec les lignes de bus depuis le domicile à la gare . Mais difficiles pour les régions retirées. Ces derniers, doivent se rendre dans les gares avec les voitures , et le Parking , coûte bientôt plus cher que le train. Les autoroutes sont nécessaires, mais le problème des sorties d'autoroutes, paralysent le trafic régional. Étant donné, que la plupart des personnes du secteur tertiaire, travaille toujours moins, ils se déplacent beaucoup plus en voiture. Que de KM et de pollution inutile. Ce n'est pas formidable pour la biodiversité et la planète. C'est le moment que les automobilistes promeneurs , passent à la caisse pour traverser notre Pays, par les autoroutes et les tunnels. Comme en France ou d'autres Pays.
Yes, expand motorways. It will reduce transport costs. Motor vehicles are here to say for at least 30 years more and maybe 100 years more. Service persons such as electricians, plumbers, builders can not use trains or buses to get to your house with their equipment. Goods need to be transport to your local supermarket or shop. Tourist need to move around. Electric vehicles are poor idea due to capital cost, low range, carrying ability, time to recharge batteries, demands on a failing electricity system etc. Some time in the future vehicles may be nuclear powered and fly for personal use if gravity can be mastered.
Because it is an expansion and not cutting new right of way it is good alternative. The question is why some of us drive alone. Personally, when driving in Switzerland having a second set of eyes is a real benefit for me. However, with my mobility limitations using the rail or tram systems which I would prefer are not a real option. The problem I have is that to go anywhere you have to be able to walk to get to the train or tram or walk the streets to shop or just to enjoy what is around me that is not always an option. This the freedom of a car.
I suggest that we create a small car system for rent like we do for bicycles in the US and
create multi level budiligns near the commercial hubs throughout Switzerland and
mandate some financial incentive that people would park their cars in the multi level
parking lots, take a Swiss train and upont their desired arrival, they pick up a small car at these car rental stations. Swiss government could offer a special tax relief and intensive for this concept.
As a driver, I once asked other, predominantly male, drivers why they drive alone, and not take public transport, which works out cheaper. They all said "noise pollution" - people chatting loudly together or on phones, screaming children, often while their mums are on their phones. When I take public transport, I like to read, which is often impossible due to the noisy few, even if I wear noise blocking headphones. I think more people would take public transport and not drive if a) The noisy use of phones and other electronic devices was banned and b) There was a quiet section, e.g. at the back of a tram/train (yes, I know SBB have this in some 1st class, but it should be in 2nd class too). Here no one would be allowed to be noisy. Making public transport a quieter, more pleasurable experience, might reduce the number of quiet people driving.
The SBB used to be quiet carriages in 2nd class but I think they gave up with that idea due to the number of people totally ignoring it, chatting away and laughing etc and staff being constantly asked to police it.
I also remember that in those carriages headphones were also "banned", which is stupid really as I wear noise-cancelling headphones to not hear the other people, as best as one can..
The most annoying these days being those (oddly, the youngest and the oldest mostly..) who think it's normal to do video calls and have their phone's speaker on loud..
I know about the SBB and 2nd class quiet zones, as I wrote to them and asked. They said the same as you. Amazing in a rule-bound nation, some disrespectful people cannot obey the rules. But it's the same with smokers - banned but people find a way to avoid the ban. Cyclists - they do things that are banned for drivers, like chatting on their phones while cycling, cycling without lights, etc. There are 2 types of people in the world - those who respect others and those that don't.
Germany has many more motorways, often with three or four lanes in each direction.
Does that mean there are fewer traffic problems there?
In the short term, increasing the capacity of often congested roads may bring relief, but in the medium term it leads to more traffic.
The bill is mainly paid by residents - and the environment.
We know this from better railway connections: People get used to it very quickly, plan with the fastest option as before and get just as annoyed about delays as before, despite the shorter journey time. Commuters will also be more stressed because the shorter journey times will be scheduled.
I also wonder whether the motorway itself is really causing the problem; commuters often queue at the exit or entrance, which then backs up onto the motorway.
On the other hand, I don't believe the argument that it is mainly foreigners who are to blame for our traffic problems. On the roads, there is a reciprocal right; we are allowed to drive on foreign roads just as much as "foreigners" are allowed to drive on our roads. That is in everyone's interest.
In Deutschland hat man viel mehr Autobahnen, oft mit drei oder vier Spuren pro Richtung.
Hat es deswegen dort weniger Verkehrsprobleme?
Kurzfristig mag eine Erhöhung der Kapazität oft überlasteter Strassen Erleichterung bringen, mittelfristig führt es zu Mehrverkehr.
Die Zeche bezahlen vor allem die Anwohner - und die Umwelt.
Man kennt es von besseren Bahnverbindungen: Man gewöhnt sich sehr schnell daran, plant wie schon früher mit der schnellsten Variante und ärgert sich trotz kürzerer Reisezeit genauso über Verspätungen wie früher. Die Berufsfahrer werden ebenfalls mehr gestresst sein, denn die kürzeren Fahrzeiten werden eingeplant werden.
Ich frage mich zudem, ob wirklich die Autobahn selber das Problem verursacht, Berufspendler stehen oft an der Ausfahrt oder Einfahrt Schlange, was sich dann auf die Autobahn zurückstaut.
Nichts halte ich dagegen vom Argument, es seien vor allem die Ausländer, die an unseren Verkhersproblemen schuld seien. Auf den Strassen herrscht Gegenrecht; wir dürfen genauso auf ausländischen Strassen unterwegs sein wie "die Ausländer" bei uns. Das ist im Interesse aller.
Germany also has no limits on some motorways, but do they have fewer accidents? When I come back from driving in Germany, it feels like my sports car has turned into a tractor, as the speed limits here are far too low, especially on empty motorways. I passed the advanced driving test years ago, and know how to stop quickly when I need to. Slower limits also lead to more congestion, and, more pollution (not less like law makers would have us believe). Sitting in a traffic jam, vehicles pumping out exhaust fumes, especially in winter. Yes, I know you should shut the engine off, but not when it's freezing outside.
More environmental destruction???
just for an extra lane?
solo per una corsia in più?
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