Is reforming the Swiss pension system still possible, and if so, how?
Swiss voters said “no” to the Parliament’s pension system reform on Sunday, 22 September. Solutions still need to be found to meet the challenge of an ageing population and to improve the pensions of low-paid workers, the majority of whom are women. Can the Swiss pension system still be reformed, and if so, how? Join the discussion!
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September 22, 2024 votes: the results from across Switzerland
Pension contributions get more expensive the older you get. I've heard of over 50s getting sacked as their employer could no longer afford the payments. Why not turn it around? The highest payments come when a worker is younger, and progressively get less as the worker gets older. Plus everyone should have a compulsory 3rd tier, without an upper limit. I have one, but have been told I cannot exceed 6500chf (I think) a year. I can afford to pay in more, and it pays better interest than a savings account. Finally when a person dies, their pension should be passed on to anyone they choose, not just their partner. Money paid into the State pot is effectively stolen when someone dies with no dependents.
I hadn't thought about that. Who will my pensionnekasse be paid to when I die, as I no longer have a spouse or descendants?
Je n'ai pas pensé a cela, a qui sera verser ma pensionnekasse lorsque je serai décédée, je n'ai plus de conjoint ni de descendance
-Stop financing corrupt countries
-Do everything for people to birth children => population growth => economy growth => no need to rise VAT to finance pensions
What's the betting raise the retirement age would surely be the first step, second step, be grateful Switzerland is not having to cowtail to the eu, if the eu could get their hands on the swiss pension system it would be gutted before you could blink......
The EU would be a danger for Swiss pensioners and those who have worked there
L'UE serait un danger pour les pensionnés suisse et ceux qui y ont travaillé
The pension is the reward for a life of grinding labour, a right not an entitlement, its a completely different kettle of fish to a unemployment payment, it may serve the same values but its born of a different standard and set of values
through more justice
durch mehr Gerechtigkeit
Yes, reforming the Swiss pension system is still possible. Key reforms being considered include raising the retirement age, adjusting contributions, improving flexibility for retirement options, and addressing gender inequality in pension benefits. Any changes must gain public support, often through referendums, making consensus and communication crucial for implementation.
In order to understand the genesis of the three-pillar principle (the principle on which Swiss social security has developed from the 1970s until today), I strongly recommend reading the book "L'affaire du siècle, le 2e pilier et les assureurs" Éditions Livreo ALPHIL by Pietro Boschetti (in Italian, published by Edizioni Casagrande, " L'affaire du secolo. Il secondo pilastro e gli assicuratori"). The author, with the help of original and indisputable documents, shows how insurers have shaped social security to their own ends and for their own benefit with the connivance of a section of politics, often unaware of the consequences of their choices. A summary of the book's contents can already be obtained by watching the following documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBrCyZxXlSo even if it does not tell the whole truth. Once you have read the book you will understand why it is now so difficult to improve social security for the poorer classes.
Per comprendere la genesi del principio dei tre pilastri (principio sul quale si è sviluppata la previdenza sociale svizzera dagli anni ‘70 fino ad oggi), consiglio vivamente di leggere il libro “L’affaire du siècle, le 2e pilier et les assureurs” Éditions Livreo ALPHIL di Pietro Boschetti (in italiano, edito da Edizioni Casagrande, “ L'affare del secolo. Il secondo pilastro e gli assicuratori”). L’autore, con l’ausilio di documenti originali e indiscutibili, mostra come gli assicuratori abbiano plasmato la previdenza sui loro fini e a beneficio dei loro interessi con la connivenza di una parte della politica, spesso ignara delle conseguenze delle loro scelte. Una sintesi del contenuto del libro si può già ottenere guardando il seguente documentario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBrCyZxXlSo anche se in esso non si racconta per intero tutta la verità. Una volta letto il libro si comprende perché ormai sia così difficile migliorare la previdenza sociale per i ceti meno abbienti.
If insurers and politicians have got involved, it's not a good sign for pensioners.
Si les assureurs et les politiques s'en sont mélés ce n'est pas bon signe pour les pensionnés
if nothing is done, the following will happen:
- the UWS will be increasingly enveloped by the pension funds. i.e. to make it worthwhile for the pension funds, they will drop to 5% or even lower to be able to cross-subsidise the obligation.
- This means that it is mainly the young who are financing the whole thing for the old.
- When the labour market becomes more difficult, older people will have serious problems being able to work until the age of 65 because of the extremely high savings% contributions.
there should be an average % rate for saving.
The coordination deduction should be halved,
the entry threshold should be halved
the coordination deduction should be adjusted to the jobs
the conversion rate is more or less irrelevant as long as you can withdraw the capital completely....
wenn nix gemacht wird passiert folgendes:
- der UWS wird immer mehr Umhüllend gestaltet von den PK's. d.h. damit es sich für die PK's noch lohnt sinken diese auf 5 % oder noch tiefer um das Obligatorium quersubventionieren zu können.
- somit finanzieren eigentlich vorallem die Jungen das Ganze für die Alten. das kanns nicht sein.
- die älteren Personen werden wenns mal schwieriger wird am Arbeitsmarkt, ziemliche Probleme haben noch bis Alter 65 arbeiten zu können wegen den extrem hohen Spar% Abgaben.
es müsste ein Durchschnitts % Satz geben zum sparen.
es sollte der Koordinationsabzug gesenkt werden auf die Hälfte,
es sollte die Eintrittsschwelle auf die Hälfte gesenkt werden
es sollte der Koordinationsabzug an die Stellen% e angepasst werden
der Umwandlungssatz ist einigermassen egal, solange man das Kapital komplett rausnehmen kann....
It would be fairer to invest more in the AHV instead of the BVG. This way, everyone benefits from better pensions, not just high earners and those in employment, but the entire population. The second pillar mainly favours those with high salaries and a stable income, while the three-pillar system as a whole disadvantages those who cannot afford a third pillar.
Gerechter wäre, mehr in die AHV statt ins BVG zu investieren. So profitieren alle von besseren Renten, nicht nur Gutverdiener und Erwerbstätige, sondern die gesamte Bevölkerung. Die 2. Säule begünstigt vor allem jene mit hohen Löhnen und stabilem Einkommen, während das Drei-Säulen-System insgesamt jene benachteiligt, die sich eine dritte Säule nicht leisten können.
In principle, yes... the problem is simply that the AHV will then become an even bigger mess and will have to invest huge sums of money... not easy.
you could also say that for a single person around 3500 is guaranteed and for couples around 6000 - just enough to live on.
for higher coverage you would need the 3a pillar or pension fund, which would be voluntary like the 3a pillar.
This would probably reduce the burden on the social welfare office and the EL. This might require a separate solution, e.g. that the state pays for it...i.e. financed via taxes as is already the case today with the supplementary benefits and social welfare office.
Im Prinzip ja... das Problem ist einfach, dass dann die AHV noch ein grösserer Molloch wird und riesige Summen investieren muss... nicht einfach.
man könnte auch sagen, dass pro Single Person ca 3500 Garantiert ist und bei Paaren ca 6000.- einfach so, dass man grade so leben kann.
für höhere Absicherungen benötigt es dann die 3a Säule oder Pensionskasse welche jedoch freiwillig wäre wie die 3a Säule.
man könnte so vermutlich das Sozialamt und die EL extrem entlasten. Altersheim und Pflegeheim kosten mal ausgenommen. dafür benötigt es allenfalls eine separate Lösung z.B. dass der Staat dafür aufkommt...d.h. via Steuern finanziert wie heute schon mit EL und Sozialamt.
As in so many other things...make the rich pay their share of taxation!!!
They already do... However, there shouldn't be these enormous opportunities for the rich. Starting with federalism in taxes, for example, all cantons should have the same tax rates and the same wealth taxes, that would defuse and improve everything.... Only when we vote on it, the people don't want it after all, I don't understand that...
Das tun sie schon... Allerdings dürfte es für die Reichen nicht diese enormen Möglichkeiten geben. Angefangen mit dem Föderalismus bei den Steuern z.B. müssten alle Kantone die gleichen Steuersätze haben und die gleichen Vermögenssteuern, das würde alles entschärfen und verbesseren.... nur wenn wir abstimmen drüber, wills das Volk dann doch nicht, das verstehe ich jeweils nicht...
The rich are always favoured in Switzerland as in France
Les riches sont toujours favorisés en Suisse comme en France
My concrete proposals for BVG reform:
- link the coordination amount to the rate of employment: this would mean that many more people would be insured under the 2nd pillar;
- lower the entry threshold for the minimum AVS pension, or even abolish it altogether;
- adjusting contribution rates for the 45-65 age bracket, as proposed in the reform recently put to the people;
- possibly introduce compulsory contributions from the age of 20.
Yes, it will cost employers a bit more, but in the end, everyone will be a winner. Let's not forget that the money saved belongs to the insured and that these sums are guaranteed (not the pensions, but the capital).
Mes propositions concrètes pour une réforme de la LPP :
- coupler le montant de coordination au taux d'activité : beaucoup plus de monde sera ainsi assuré dans le 2ème pilier ;
- abaisser le seuil d'entrée à la rente AVS minimale, voire le supprimer complètement ;
- ajuster les taux de cotisation pour la tranche d'âge 45-65 ans, comme elle l'a été proposée dans la réforme soumis au peuple récemment ;
- éventuellement ouvrir l'obligation de cotisation dès 20 ans.
Oui, ça coûtera un peu plus aux employeurs, mais au final, tout le monde sera gagnant. N'oublions pas que l'argent épargné appartient aux assurés et que ces sommes sont garanties (pas les rentes, mais les capitaux).
Dear Claude
The suggestion to link the coordination amount to the employment rate and to reduce or abolish the access threshold are issues to be discussed and will certainly be the subject of discussion. Thank you for participating and sending your concrete proposals.
Estimado Claude
La sugerencia de vincular el importe de coordinación a la tasa de empleo y reducir o suprimir el umbral de acceso son asuntos a discutir y que seguramente serán tema de discusión. Gracias por participar y enviar sus propuestas concretas.
Simply less money for the war in Ukraine, it is not our war, it is a proxy war of America. Less money for foreign countries and more money for the Swiss who contribute every year with taxes and pension payments. Swiss first is what it should be now.
Ganz enfach werniger Geld für den Krieg in der Ukraine es ist nicht unser Krieg es ist ein stellvertreter Krieg von Amerika. Weniger Geld fürs Ausland und mehr Geld für die Schweizer die jedes jahr beitragen mit steuernen und rentenzahlungen. Swiss first so soll es nun lauten.
The employees' contributions are, I think, sufficient to find proposals other than the one that was rejected.
other than the one that was rejected.
Les contributions des salariés sont , je pense , suffisantes pour trouver des propositions
autres que celle qui a été refusée.
1 unpopular way is to raise the taxes on ultra-rich people. Just a 0,5% will already solve the problem. We should not keep asking the working class to pay more and more and receive less and less while the ultra-rich sit in their glass castles with champagne. Let them pay a little. It won't kill them. The working class maintains the Switzerland for them to live in.
You've summed up the ultra-rich very well
Vous avez bien résumé la classe des ultra riches
Every time there's a pension reform, it's always a question of taking money from workers and people who have already paid contributions all their lives to qualify for a pension. Instead of milking the same people over and over again, it would be a good idea to make savings, for example on the 1.2 billion spent on aid to migrants, a large proportion of whom have no business being in Switzerland (a country not at war), 8.5 million for undefined tasks, and so on.
Lors d'une réforme des retraites, il est toujours question d'argent qu'on voudrait ponctionner chez les travailleurs et personnes ayant déjà cotisé toute une vie pour bénéficier d'une retraite. Au lieu de traire toujours les mêmes, il serait bon de faire des économies, par exemple sur les 1,2 milliards d'aide aux migrants, dont une bonne partie n'a rien à faire en Suisse ( pays non en guerre), 8,5 millions pour des tâches non définies, etc.
Regarding 'aid to migrants' we should compare it with the income taxes paid by migrants and their contribution to the economy, All the migrants that I personally know in Switzerland are gainfully employed, nicely paying their AHV contribution so that I continue to receive my pension.
Yes, solutions must be found. Please do not censor, thank you
Ja, es müssen Lösungen gefunden werden. Bitte nicht zensurieren, danke
Dear Peter Ern, we are certainly not censoring, we just have clear rules to focus on the specific debate, to share experiences and knowledge related to the topic at hand: Can the Swiss pension system still be reformed and, if so, how?
Estimado Peter Ern, seguro no censuramos, solo tenemos reglas claras para centrarnos en el debate en concreto, para compartir experiencias y conocimientos relacionados con el tema tratado: ¿Se puede reformar aún el sistema de pensiones suizo y, en caso afirmativo, cómo?
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